#356 - ALONEMENT: HOW TO BE ALONE & ABSOLUTELY OWN IT, with Francesca Specter

Hello!

In this week’s episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with the inspiring Francesca Specter—author of Alonement: How to Be Alone and Absolutely Own It.

And wow, what a beautiful and important conversation this turned out to be.

If the idea of being alone feels scary or uncomfortable - or maybe even a bit boring - then this episode is 100% for you.

We’re diving into why solitude isn’t something to escape… it’s something to embrace.

Francesca shares so honestly her own journey as an extrovert learning to love her own company, and how solitude has become a joyful, nourishing part of her life - how it can become that for you too - and how it benefits you.

We talk about:

• The difference between loneliness and alonement—and why it matters.

• How to carve out alone time (even with a full life) without guilt.

• Practical tips to enjoy your own company and use solitude as a tool for creativity and clarity.

• How journaling, rituals, and walking in nature can become sacred acts of self-connection.

You’ll likely walk away with a new perspective on what it means to be alone—and how choosing solitude can actually bring you closer to yourself, your dreams, and your deepest clarity.

So light a candle, grab a cuppa, or pop in your ear buds and go walking... and press play on this warm and soul-nourishing chat.

Whether you're an introvert, extrovert, or somewhere in between, there’s something truly powerful here for you.

Because you, my friend, are worth taking time for.

As always, I’d LOVE to hear what resonates with you from this episode and what you plan to implement after listening in. So please share and let’s keep the conversation going in the Dream Life Podcast Facebook Group here.    

Have a wonderful weekend …and remember, it all starts with a dream 💛

Kristina 💛

Dream Life & kikki.K Founder

SHOW NOTES:

• Join our wonderful retreat to reconnect to you, and learn how you can run your own solitude retreats for yourself.
• Buy Alonement here...
• Join my Platinum Coaching Program (NEW Member Trial offer - save $200!) - where in May our focus is on Manifesting Your Dream Life - and turning vision into reality. Our Monthly Habit: Daily guided meditation. Commit daily to visualise your dream life and attract abundance.. Learn more here.
• Join my virtual book club GROW for May where we meet weekly on Zoom to discuss and squeeze the learnings from great books. This May we're reading: 

  The DOSE Effect: Small Habits to Boost Your Brain Chemistry, by TJ Power. Today’s fast-paced world leaves many of us struggling with extreme emotional highs and lows caused by chemical imbalances in our brains, brought on by the pressures of modern life and constant digital connectivity. Neuroscientist TJ Power shares how you can reset and balance your brain chemistry with simple, everyday habits to lead a happier, healthier, and more productive life. NEW Member trial offer - just $9! Learn more here.

• Dream Life Community Facebook Group: Connect with like-minded dreamers.

RESOURCES:

• Sign up to our email list here to hear about upcoming workshops.
• Take your first step to getting clarity on what you want from life with this free bonus dreaming exercise here 101 Dreams Audio Guide 
• Buy Kristina's book, Your Dream Life Starts Here
• Discover how close you are to living your Dream Life. Take our 5min Quiz here and get personalised insights emailed to you...

ROUGH TRANSCRIPT:

Hi there, and welcome back to another episode of Your Dream Life podcast. I'm Kristina Karlsson, and I am beyond excited for this episode because today we are diving deep into something that doesn't get enough love in our busy connected world, in my opinion. And that is the power of being alone.

I'm joined today by the inspiring Francisca Specter author. Alonement: How to Be Alone and absolutely own it. If you ever felt [00:02:00] like time alone or something to avoid or something that made you feel uncomfortable, this conversation is going to open your heart and your mind.

Francisca shares so beautifully how solitude can actually be the source of strength, creativity, and confidence. It's not about loneliness, it's about choosing yourself. Carving out some sacred space for self connection And embracing life on your own terms, your relationship with yourself is the most important one you will ever have.

And after this episode, you might just find yourself craving more solo time too. which brings me to something I'm thrilled to share. In May, I'll be hosting another very special solitude retreat on the beautiful Mornington Peninsula.

It's all about reconnecting with you. It's going to be a gentle, grand experience focused [00:03:00] entirely on reconnecting with yourself. I will also guide you through how to create your own solitude retreat as well, So you can take the magic home with you and build your own rituals to feel inspired, clear and aligned. You will walk away feeling calm, refreshed, and more connected to your dreams. I will link to it in the show notes or just head over to your dream life starts here.com.

Very aware that we've got listeners from all over the world. My dream is to do these kind of retreats all over the world. For now, it's on the Morning Champ Peninsula, and we've got a Sydney one coming up as well. So as you listen today, I encourage you to be open to the idea that solitude isn't something to escape.

It's something to celebrate. It's something I do myself. I love spending time in solitude, And I love spending time just being with myself. So let's get started.

Light a candle, [00:04:00] and grab a drink and let yourself really absorb this beautiful conversation. 

 

[00:04:09] Kristina: Hi, Francesca and welcome to my podcast. I am so excited to have you on. 

[00:04:15] Francesca: Oh, hi, Kristina. It's so lovely to be on. Thank you so much for inviting me. 

[00:04:19] Kristina: No, thank you. we got so much to talk about, but before I, 

get started, I have a question that I ask all, 

my guests, and that is, did you have a dream as a kid, something you wanted to do or become or perhaps have.

[00:04:35] Francesca: This is going to sound like I made it up, but I didn't, I always wanted to be a writer. Yes. And I, I have a theory about this. I think I just sort of got to, I don't know, I guess we call it key stage one, the, the first, uh, years of education in the uk and I, you know, I learned to read and I learned to do.

Mental arithmetic or whatever. And I was so [00:05:00] terrible at the latter that I just thought, you know what? I'm just gonna pursue this. Let, let's not question things, going forward. But it was always, it was always what I wanted to be. Uh, so I feel very grateful to have made that. Yeah, the reality. 

[00:05:13] Kristina: That is so great.

It's good to, hear when people, because a lot of lot of us who, perhaps wanted to be flight attendants or some things that looked very glamorous and perhaps wasn't, perhaps didn't make the dream come true. So it's really exciting to hear that you did. Tell us a little bit about your journey.

I, um, I read your book, so we are gonna talk a lot about your amazing book, but just tell us a little bit about your journey so far. 'cause there will be some listeners that perhaps haven't heard about you yet. 

[00:05:42] Francesca: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I, I suppose potted history, I was a lifestyle journalist, still am, uh, in all fairness, but I was doing that exclusively as a full-time, in-house job at various places.

Like, um, well I start, I started my career at British [00:06:00] Vogue, and then I was doing, bits and bobs for a health magazine. called Healthy, which sadly, like many magazines is now folded. and then I was working as the deputy editor at Yahoo Lifestyle, so I move over into digital journalism when I.

Actually went at the same time through a sort of personal journey, aged around, I think I was 27, going into being 28 at this point where I broke up with my partner of a couple of years, who given the age I was at, I sort of naively thought I would end up with at that point. Uh, we just started living together and, I realized that.

In my personal life, there was something I needed to rectify, and that was my fear of spending any time alone, uh, which some people listening to this might relate to. And I realized that actually this was keeping me from doing a lot of things I wanted to do, um, including ironically in my dream of [00:07:00] being a writer because.

That requires quite a bit of solitude. but you know, as did things like spending weekends in the way I wanted to, or even just being comfortable around my own company, it's a very, sort of universal life skill, which had never really been taught. So in the process of sort of thinking about this on a personal level, journaling about it, I guess, of course I am a lifestyle journalist, so whatever I'm going through in my personal life inevitably is going to filter into my.

quasi professional, uh, life I've always blocked. and then at that point I began, blogging. I started producing, um, a podcast actually in that process because I thought, well, I want to interview more people and see if they're having the same experience. and in that process, I, then attracted the attention of the publisher.

got my book deal, basically in February, 2020. Uh, so just before the pandemic, which isn't the way round people think it is actually. Um, and then, yeah, by midway through the pandemic [00:08:00] I was writing a book about being alone, doing a podcast, about being alone, and I guess that became my.

Self-employed, freelance career. so that's been sort of my, most of my life, most of my even freelance writing for the past, uh, few years. And more recently, I launched a newsletter on Substack called The Shoulds, um, just under my name. Uh, mostly around kind of similar topic about living, uh, an authentic life for you.

of which spending time alone is a big. So, yeah, I suppose that's a sort of potted history of my career so far. 

[00:08:35] Kristina: Ah, I love that. I love that. So, alone meant that's like a made up word, right? 

[00:08:41] Francesca: Yes, it is. I made it up and the reason I felt the need to, uh, because I think that, you know, new language always does feel that.

Gap, is because I realized as an extrovert, I had no way to even convince myself at the time I was spending alone was valuable. And so I thought, well, if I can't convince myself, [00:09:00] how am I going to convince other people? And so I kind of rebranded it as alone.

[00:09:05] Kristina: I love that. And what does Alone meant mean to you. 

[00:09:09] Francesca: aone is a word that, so if you imagine I was described sort of a alone month to loneliness being a spectrum.

And if you imagine alone is that, objective state of physical aloneness in the middle. and then you've got loneliness at one end and you've got alone, at the other end. Sometimes people say, well, you know, isn't solitude the thing that fills that gap? But solitude isn't this normalized phrase we have in everyday language.

It's, the roots of the word solitude is actually from the word for loneliness. And you have to kind of qualify it as positive solitude. And what I needed was this almost self-justifying phrase to say, I'm going off to have some. No questions asked. You know, meant alone month. There's a sense of intentionality there.

and also an umbrella term which [00:10:00] encompasses all the positive. States you might feel when you're alone. So you might feel restored, you might just feel a little bit of hedonism, like, Hey, I get to be alone with the pizza. I want to eat. Or, you know, I'm, I'm very much looking forward to Myone session with, uh, watching Ted Lasso Tonight TV show I'm obsessed with.

But, uh, there's, you know, all these, all these things it can cover. The only overriding factor is it's just. Positive alone time as distinct from loneliness. 

[00:10:30] Kristina: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. When I saw the title of your books, I was like, I have to read it, be, um, not because I feel like I need it, because I'm very good at alone.

I think, um, I, I'm an introvert, so naturally it's an easier thing for me to pursue. But, I have a coaching program and, uh. A lot of people that I come across through my programs are failing. scared about their own thoughts and, no, maybe not scared of their own thoughts, but, [00:11:00] you know, don't wanna be with their own thoughts and don't really feel great being alone while I'm actually the opposite, I crave it.

And, um, when I used to go to London a lot when I was based in Sweden, I used to. Always spoke a couple of nights just for me where I didn't tell anyone that I was still there. So I didn't have any pressure of catching up with anyone and um, that's so clever. And I just, I just loved it. and some people would say, oh, why wouldn't you?

And because I, I was there so often meant that I didn't have to go to the latest restaurants 'cause I knew I'll be back and all those kind of things while you're, if you're traveling to a place once, it's a very different story. But this was a bit of a commute. Even though a long one, but I was very frequently in London and it was something I looked forward to so much.

and not everyone, especially extroverts do not understand that. Even like, uh, when I had young kids, my kids are older now, but when you have young kids, it's just endless of, you know. I don't have a lot of time on [00:12:00] your own. So for Mother's Day, I always wished for a weekend at home on my own.

and my friends are like, that's so rude. And I'm like, no, it's because I, I spent a lot of time alone because I traveled so much for work, but. At home. I'm rarely alone at home, and there's some, and I'm a homebody, and, uh, so that's what I wished for. And, um, people laughed at it, but that's, I'm sure you can relate to wanting to have that space.

But, um, would love for you to really, Give us some tips for people who are not feeling comfortable Having alone men, so not being alone as, feeling lonely, 

[00:12:36] Francesca: absolutely. I mean, I think the first thing to say is, uh, actually there's scientific research to say that we are wired genetically one way.

So I suppose an element of it was that, you know, I was born an extrovert, you were born an introvert. I can learn from you. I constantly am sort of. Absolutely marveling at introverts and that [00:13:00] quality to then, want to have an impulse to spend time with oneself because I think it's a really wonderful thing.

I think it's almost like part of your soul kind of calling to you to spend time with Yeah. With, with your, your inner self. So that, that's really special. And I don't think that we celebrate that enough. and, and my, my, my starting point for writing this book was as that extrovert, which I still am, I mean.

these past couple of months I've been living by myself in Nisson, and I do naturally have you know, less, less friends here, a smaller circle of people I can see. I do naturally spend more time by myself. I'm learning all the time how to be comfortable with. Almost going against my natural impulse, which is to energize by other people and working out how much of that I need per day.

So I think that actually when we look at solitude skills. Which is, solitude skills is a term coined by a researcher called, [00:14:00] uh, Dr. Virginia Thomas in the us, around basically the skills that we have to cultivate to be comfortable spending time alone. One of those vital skills is to achieve a balance of alone time versus.

Social time that feels comfortable for you, and that varies for me. I do. I, I can't really go a day without speaking to anyone, which means I do all sorts of strange things sometimes. I, I, I mean, speaking to someone in person as well as, as well as sort of virtually, I do strange things, like I'll go to the same coffee shop every day to have that five, 10 minutes.

And you know, I suppose it's nice to have that impulse, but I know I need it just as much as, uh, that solitude. so that's one thing. I think it's being compassionate to yourself and saying, look, this is just how I'm wired and I do need to think how am I going to factor in that social time to then underpin me.

Feeling comfortable alone and get to that sense of [00:15:00] groundedness where it feels like something that you can be comfortable and I, you know, I think beyond that, I think it's about starting small. If you've never spent time alone, as I hadn't really. Before I started this sort of journey, the personal journey, which started in 2019, it's things like, you know, going out with your book to a cafe, where quite a few people might be there alone.

There, there are probably certain cafes you've noticed where a lot of people come to read going and doing that, making that your radical aone. adventure and then, and then building up to other things that you might like to do alone, like going for dinner alone, although that one is quite scary, or the sort of less, less scary one that is going to the cinema alone because no one really notices.

so, starting, starting less or like that. other thing to say, and I guess this taps into self-compassion, it is very scary if you're not used to it, sitting and being in your own head. We all have these thoughts, and that can be anything.

It can be, it can be just a sort of an [00:16:00] admin thing that you are really worried about at the moment, you know, down to, you know, grief, post breakup thoughts, uh, you know, relationship anxiety. Anything can all be going on in your head. Unfortunately, the entrance fee to spending time comfortably alone is to have to find some sort of means of dealing with, with that, whether that's meditation or journaling, or seeking therapy, if you're having those difficult thoughts, then it, it's not necessarily healthy to subject yourself to long stretches of time alone without.

Being able to kind of say, okay, I've got this practice that keeps me grounded and comfortable enough in my own head to then go off and, and challenge myself. So, um, there's just a a few things that I would suggest to begin with. 

[00:16:46] Kristina: Yeah, that sounds perfect. And you mentioning, um, journaling. So, uh, tell us a little bit about how you journal and how that can help with people really getting through their thoughts.

I'm a big, uh, [00:17:00] obviously a big journaling person myself, and, uh, I, um, I love that you are as also love to hear some, what you do and what other people can be inspired to do. 

[00:17:11] Francesca: Yes, you probably back in the day, provided that stationary that I then got started, started journaling with. So yeah, you're probably an integral part of that journey.

So well, I think journaling is something really interesting. There's a, there's a term I came across not long ago called Solomon's Paradox, and it basically boils down to the fact that you give better advice to. Other people than you do to yourself. and you know, we, we'll be walking around saying, I'm sure many people listening to this have heard the term, the inner critic will be walking around whispering all these not very kind things to ourselves.

but, you know, if we were talking to a best friend, would we say that same thing? Would we, if that person was, you know, worried about their performance. At work would be say to our friends, oh, you know, you have probably, uh, messing up there, or you should [00:18:00] probably quit, you know, or would we say something kind and equally, you know, realistic, like, oh, but you know, you are really good at your profession and you've got that really good feedback from your boss, whatever.

I think journaling is a way to create that sort of. Foe externalization to be able to talk to oneself in a kinder way as you were the best friend. number one, it's very hard to ruminate on the same thought in your journal. Right? That's just boring. You, you know, you can't kind of say, yeah.

oh, I hate myself. Like repeatedly. You, you can write it once and then you can look at that and say, what the hell am I doing? You know? Yeah. so, there's that, and then there's, you just. Come to a place, even through the act of writing, a place of decompression of calm, where you are speaking a bit more rationally to yourself as you would that best friend.

And I think it's a really important space and it's something that crucially you can do in your alone time. Funnily enough, the commonality with alone is that quite a lot of stuff we're told to do for our personal development, you know, meditation, [00:19:00] journaling to an extent, things like yoga, going for a run, they do often.

Coincide with being alone. so, you know, it's a nice practice to have there as well. Yeah, 

[00:19:10] Kristina: absolutely. And I think, um, I sold a lot of, of my challenges through just writing them on a page. And I, I do like a practical morning pages by Julia Cameron. I don't know if you heard about the book The Artist Way?

Yes, yes. Yeah. And um, so I'm not sure if I'm following it. Perfectly. But I just do three pages every morning, and that's kind of just to get things out of my head. And, um, I did actually a 12 hour walk with a guest who's been on a podcast before, and, uh, he wrote a book called The 12 Hour Walk. And, um, the whole idea of this walk is to walk alone with your thoughts.

So no podcasts, no book, no talking to anyone. Obviously if you, you know, feel like. Buying a coffee and you need to order a coffee, you can do that, but it's no conversation because you, the whole idea is about just [00:20:00] being alone and be with yourselves. And, for the first two hours, I had so many things going around my head and then I just stopped and I had a little tiny journal in my pocket with me and I just started journal and I felt so much better.

So I think, just emptying things out of our head is, becomes a little bit clearer on a page as well. Don't you think? Hmm. 

[00:20:20] Francesca: Yes. I think that that's a nice way of putting it. Yeah. It becomes clearer. It's, it's like a sort of, mean, don't get me wrong, my handwriting is awful, but I think it's a lot, you know, it's a lot more.

Neat. A way to put down my thoughts. Then the more swirling about in my head at least, there's, at least there are lines on a page. 

[00:20:38] Kristina: Absolutely. And sometimes you don't Actually, when I do the morning pages, I actually never really write it, uh, because I don't save the morning pages. I do separate journaling that I save.

But, uh, my morning pages is really just to dump everything. And, um, sometimes I write about the same thing for a few days to kind of work out, a challenge And my writing is never Good for that one. 'cause I don't save it, so it doesn't [00:21:00] really matter. Which is good too, because no can read it.

Tell us what alone means in terms of, for anyone who's listening, who wants to, try it. So for example, you can go to a movie, but I'm assuming, but once you never assume that you shouldn't be just sitting and being on social media for that time because then you are kind of somehow connected. Is that right?

[00:21:27] Francesca: Sure. I mean, I guess social media, we're trying to recreate the sense of being with others just virtually in the way We all try to sort of shoehorn in, in various ways during the pandemic. So I guess, yeah, it's, and again, I think it's one of those things, we don't necessarily have the language to describe it, but it's not really.

It's not really alone. And I guess we don't acknowledge that sometimes. Um, but I was actually having a chat with someone about internet culture the other day and, and early on, I mean, there were things like. I know it's, it's still a social [00:22:00] media, but Reddit or Quora where you can sort of go down a thought of your own, a curiosity of your own and, and explore that.

Um, and you know, even getting into a Wikipedia hole, that can be quite interesting. You know, that's effectively reading, but I think it's just the fact that there are so many. Distracting other things, calling for your attention, that it's actually a little bit better to just sort of shut down that option of, of it all being online, although there's nuance.

but I think it's really, doing those things that you would like to do, and finding a way to enjoy them. you know, regardless of whether there's anyone around. I mean, you know, sing is a prime example, right? I think that many of us, Like to eat with others. Of course.

Uh, many, you know, things like, or, a family style, Italian cooking, it's made for sharing tapas even. but equally there's a really nice process of eating minds fully alone. And, and again, there are foods that, so in Japanese culture, it's quite normal to sort of go to a restaurant [00:23:00] alone. And even Ramen is one of those kind of, it's known as a sort of.

I think immersive eating experience in that you're so immersed in the eating, you're not really involving other people. I dunno if anyone listening has ever attempted a first date, whether eating ramen, but I certainly wouldn't advise it. Uh, so, you know, things like that. So it's just, you know, it's finding ways to sort of love things that you like doing alone or with another person and, and then realizing that there's a sort of.

Perk to either it's not choosing one or the other. Um, and then it can, you know, it, it can include things like, I love reading alone. Um, I actually love reading alone. maybe it's because I'm, I'm currently in Lisbon. I'm in a, a perfectly nice flat, but it's not my home. So I quite like reading alone in the park, or sort of in a coffee shop, um, around others.

But I'd still say that's alone months. Um, I don't think you need to be too kind of. Rigid with, the boundaries there. Um, there's sort of aloneness around strangers that maybe sort of tickles my [00:24:00] extrovert, uh, senses as well. and then, you know, I think this building up to things like, uh, solo holidays.

I love to go away for a few days, each year alone and sort of really plan it. And again, I think we, because we're socially conditioned to think of. Other people when we think of, well, most things, but planning a holiday, you know, I think really plan it ahead. You know, get those dates in early. studies show that actually the two weeks of anticipating a holiday are just as important for our wellbeing as the actually being on it.

So definitely plan it ahead more than that. and, you know, plan every day because I think that the thing that you might fall into. When you are alone is not having necessarily the me the momentum of another person when you're jet lagged to say, let's do this, let's do that. So just, make this, I call it positive selfishness in my book.

You know, be positively selfish. Like, what do I like to do? You know, maybe, I dunno, this is, this is a rogue one, but maybe your, your partner, doesn't like eating cheese. Order all the cheese, you know, do all, do all the [00:25:00] things that you, for whatever reason, you know, maybe as, as a parent, as a partner, as a member of a, um, a friendship group where you don't always have the absolute say, give yourself that tyranny over your own life, over your own alone time, and just, and lean into it.

and then, you know, whatever you, declare, like meaningfully is that precious guilt-free alone time for you. That's, that's alone months. 

[00:25:24] Kristina: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The, um, focus in my, um, coaching program for me is, self-doubt, because I think self-doubt is the number one dream life killer in terms of living your dreams because you worry about self-doubt, but also worried about what, or having self-doubt, but also worrying about what other people think.

So. I would assume if you're not feeling comfortable going out to restaurants alone, you are worried about what other people think. Can you talk us through how we deal with that? Because I don't have any [00:26:00] problems with that. Like I love it. I mean, and I, and I think it comes also when you're traveling alone.

Work wise, you, you can seek out people all the time. Of course, when you're traveling and have friends around the world, but at airports and things like that, there is always an opportunity to sit alone. And I love that. Like, I love having a glass of wine and a book or my journal in a bar somewhere.

I absolutely love that and I'm not worried about what anyone thinks. So what's the. For if you have come across any of that. 

[00:26:30] Francesca: Well, uh, first can I question the question? 'cause I'm, curious about you. I'm curious about, what it's like, um, just, you know, immediately where you live. Like is it quite common to see people by themselves in these bars and in these restaurants?

Or is it just something you sort of decided that you are going to feel a certain way about, no matter whether you see other people doing the same? 

[00:26:52] Kristina: Yeah, so I, I don't, I actually don't, no. 'cause I don't really think about, like, I, when I go out for dinner, I don't actually think about me [00:27:00] as being alone. I'm, I'm just, that's what I've chosen.

So for me, that's kind of, I. To, I'm just part of it, but, but I mean, certainly like in cafes in the morning around where I live, you see people alone all the time working or, but that might be a different thing compared to just sitting and I guess the restaurants, you don't sit and work the same way as you do in a cafe or reading.

You might, but I often bring my, my journal to restaurants and I, I absolutely love it. So I think it, I am certainly, but I, I'm not sure what the culture is, but I certainly know that a lot of my extroverts friends would feel really uncomfortable and feeling like they're almost not.

Have chosen that because that's not what they normally would choose. It doesn't, if you know what I mean. Like they would choose to go out with a friend versus versus alone. So they will feel awkward naturally. Of course. 

[00:27:49] Francesca: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, because I guess there's two elements. There's sort of not feeling that you have the kind of personal, capacity to be.

By yourself you know, for a prolonged period of time, whatever the, [00:28:00] um, the surroundings, you know, regardless of whether everyone else is doing it. but then there is the element that we are all. Social creatures, you know, we will notice if we are discernibly different from everyone around us in a particular environment.

So I think there's a sort of, uh, normalization. I mean, even, you know, I'm here in Lisbon, there's a lot of expats. Um, so it's a bit more normal to be alone. And I do think, you know, obviously we're all driven by different, to different extents by kind of wanting to be like those around us. But I do think that does make.

A bit of a difference and it's sort of something to kind of override and even, you know, 'cause one piece of advice I'd give, if this is a big concern, then maybe the first time you eat alone, try and go somewhere where there are you, you think there might be one or two? People eating alone or even somewhere that's actually quite a little bit larger.

So you feel more anonymous within that, in a strange way. So you don't feel like, you know, if there's, if you go somewhere to a little sort of local restaurant where there's, I dunno, four or five tables and you know, the others all contain, friends or [00:29:00] couples or families, then you think, okay, this is gonna be, you know, a difficult, this is gonna be a difficult experience to sell back to myself.

So I think thinking about that is important not to, this is not to say that in principle someone shouldn't be able to go alone by themselves anywhere, you know? but I do, do think it can help to ease one in, and you know, and I think that the next part of that, it really, I think that you spoke about self-doubt.

There is a really interesting, A thing around even the way that you walk in, I think quite often, you know, I'll walk into a restaurant by myself and I, I will bite my tongue. I, I need to say, table for one, please not, you know, oh, just, just one. Oh, like, only me. And that's really hard because, you know, I've got even, you know, I think my mother, when she, uh, when she calls me up and she'll say, oh, it's only me.

And like, it's very easy to set to apply this reductive language to oneself, but actually. No, you are the most important person in your universe and you are taking yourself out for dinner. So it's, it's walking in with that sort of bold, sort of like, you know, chest up and sort of [00:30:00] almost fake it to make it, uh, and it can be.

I do, I often find that the first five minutes. Can, if you are in an environment where you realize, okay, there aren't that many people by themselves, or you feel a bit awkward or whatever, and you're new to it, um, or you are in a new place where you're not fam, you know, 'cause it can be different. You can be used to eating alone in your home city, but not elsewhere.

You have to sort of ease into it. It's a bit like cold's, water, swimming. But once you have, you are then like, oh, there's that thing of like, I suppose you, you describing your mother's day of being left alone at home and thinking, Ooh, think of all the things I can do.

You know, you've got a rec, you've got a menu to yourself, you've beautiful atmosphere. You've got your journal or whatever you wanna do there. and you just get to enjoy pleasure by yourself. So I think that once you've done that a couple of times, you'll hopefully look back on that mostly positive experience and it will be a self-reinforcing thing, which will override, those little kind of bits of self-doubt.

[00:30:55] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. And I think also, 'cause I walk every morning and I, I love walking [00:31:00] with friends, but I always walk on my own first thing in the morning, you know, unless there's some. Changes, which is of course can happen, but 99% of my walks are all alone. And I think that's a really great way of starting as well because, um, you just feel so good being out and about and when if you walk, early like I do then, then there are lots of people walking alone and I think that's a really good practice too, because you feel so good by being out in nature and movement and then being with your own thoughts as well.

[00:31:30] Francesca: Yeah, absolutely. There's a real, it's quite, quite hard to feel lonely around nature, isn't it? And yeah, I'd love to understand psychologically why that is, but you know, I dunno if it's just like the bird song or the something 

[00:31:41] Kristina: Yeah, I think you feel so con, like, connected. I was, um, just, um, up in, Queensland for, a few weeks and, uh.

It was, I was just alone walking alone all the time. I worked with, walked with the kids and stuff as well, but I, I spent every morning walking for, you know, a couple hours in [00:32:00] nature and I never felt like I, I just felt like I was part of the big world and, um, I think there's something, yeah, I don't know why, but it is, I think we are part of nature as well.

Of course. So I think we feel so good by walking. Let's talk a little bit about self-care. What do you do for your own self-care when it comes toone more than the things that we're already spoken about? 

[00:32:28] Francesca: Oh, it's so boring. I mean, Despite, my lifestyle being quite, I guess individualistic at this point.

Like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm single. Um, I live alone. I work remotely so I can, you know, come to Lisson for a couple of months, but I think it's trying to shoehorn in any element of routine and stability where I can, so it's something is. It's something as simple as having, you know, fresh produce in my fridge.

knowing that that's there, It is a form of, self care. Just knowing that I've sort of, even though I don't need to, even though I can sort of live everything kind [00:33:00] of, Ad hoc, knowing I've formed that for myself. and then I suppose, yeah, shoehorning in a level of routine.

Like I meditate first thing every morning, just 10 minutes. But it, it's amazing how, I miss it once in a blue moon. I mean, like, honestly, every, every few months I'll miss it for a day and I'd be like, why do I feel so awful? Yeah. You know, what's entangled here? Um, that's a really important process.

and then. I think things like, I'm, I'm. I'd say addicted, but I don't think any that this can ever be a bad thing. I'm, I'm sort of very, very into yoga. I do it most days. I almost have to kind of have a deal with myself to not do it one day or so a week. 'cause I love it so much. And I think that that's a really beautiful self-care for mind and body, which, which is so connected and I've never really given myself credit for that previously.

But, really, it's that hour day where I can sort of be. With myself, you know, looking after those aches and pains that we ignore every day, but that can so often get in the way of our, our mental calm. yeah, it's that alone togetherness in a weird [00:34:00] way because you're very much in your own designated space on a mat.

It's kind of signposted that everyone's in their bubble, but there's that communal aspect. Two. which is interesting. and then, yeah, I think, I mean, I mentioned journaling before. If I, if I go a couple of days without doing that, then it's this yellow book and it sort of looks at me kind of from across the room and sort of, I'm really anthrop izing this book here.

But it sort of tilts, its, kind of proverbial head and there's like, we need to talk, this is not healthy. Um. getting rid of all that mental clutter. so I suppose, yeah, those would be, a few things. And then, yeah, again, back to the boring, you know, things as simple as remembering to wash my hair.

I mean, you know, I, I think that honestly, if, if everything's kind of going kaput, I just get in the shower and wash my hair because, you know, it's, it's a self care process. I mean, can't bring your phone into the shower yet. Right? And you know, you are immersing yourself in water.

There's something lovely about that. You are, you know, physically, you know, the self-soothing. you're touching your hair, looking after yourself [00:35:00] in that way that a parent might when you're a child. And I think that, you know, even that 10 minutes can be the gap that you need come back to life a little bit stronger.

[00:35:09] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think the small, simple things that you enjoy makes a massive difference in the, life that we are living. So how do we make space for Elone in this kind of very full world? don't like use using the word busy, but, because I feel like that's when you, when you feel busy, but a lot of people who'll be listening will feel like, how am I gonna fit this in, in my very full schedule already?

[00:35:37] Francesca: Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I don't. Have the same life as, yourself or anyone listening. I mean, no one has the same life and it's all, so I guess it's all situation dependent, right? Because well alone time in a way, is a fluctuating commodity. Some of us have so much of it, so it's not about fitting it in, it's about almost balancing it with, with, with socializing or, or with shoehorning, that social [00:36:00] time we wouldn't otherwise get, you know, and I know, you know, but.

being a parent, being in a couple, being all of those things, it does sort of need to be, scheduled and, and shoehorned and, and, and sort of communicated a bit better. So I think, the first thing is yeah, really just assess your own life and, and, what is feasible.

And, you know, it might not be, well, it's, it's certainly not feasible to sort of run off for, you know, weeks on end, as a parent really, unless you have a very, very supportive partner. But, you know, that's a, it's not something that's done with, with much ease, but ideally, you'll have some capacity for spending time alone.

Already, or at least some sense it might be valuable and therefore sort of urge to then try and plot it in. and I think, you know, it starts with okay, if you've got, if you have a partner, um, or if you know, or close friends that you spend a lot of time with and you sort of are, your schedules are intertwined.

It's having that kind of communication and that's, that's worth saying. It is another one of Virginia Thomas's. solitude skills to communicating one's [00:37:00] needs for alone time. So, so, you know, discussing that and saying, okay, this is something that is important to me because X and x, you know, it's not me slamming the door and saying, I need space.

This is actually me saying I need to retreat into myself or do something for myself in order to come back to you in a better way. 

[00:37:19] Kristina: Yeah. And once 

[00:37:19] Francesca: you've done that, once you've had those conversations and, and that can, you know, I mean that can be having, that can be having conversations with children as well.

Um, I mean, you know, my mother never explicitly said this to me, I don't think, but I think watching her as I grew up and watching how content she was just sitting there doing the crosswords and knowing, you know, probably not the best time to disturb her. That kind could have taught me that alone time can be healthy.

There was a sort of silent communication there, but Beyond that, it's then scheduling it, it's then looking in your calendar and thinking, okay, I could, you know, even when you plan your week ahead, maybe you do that on a Sunday like I do, so you can sit, you can say. Okay, when am I having my alone time needs this week?

how's that going to fit in? Where's that spare hour? and I think that, [00:38:00] you know, there might be a sort of, a socially anxious tendency or a people pleasing tendency. Many of us have to say, oh, well I'll go and do an errand then, or I'll go and see another person then. But it's like, no, no, I can literally put that time in, like that block in my calendar and say That's alone time. I mean, the other thing beyond scheduling can also be a sort of ritual. so rituals can be something that you can then communicate to people that you live with or whatever, you know, maybe that's 10 minutes a day, like I do my 10 minutes a day meditation.

and having that recurring ritual means that no matter what you've had that time alone during the day, um, yeah. Even if it's not feasible to kind of have it spontaneously or schedule it in, um, in knowledge degrees. So those are just some examples. 

[00:38:41] Kristina: Yeah. Abs, I love those. Thank you for sharing that.

And I think also, I think it was Julia Cameron in the Artist Way book who talked about the artist's date. I don't recall. Yes. Mine, the artist's date perhaps anymore. 'cause it was, I just try to go away, once a month to just a day spa. And it could be [00:39:00] something really simple, just have a massage or there's a new, beautiful bathhouse down in Sorrento where I live and it's just, they just moved, their facilities down to on the coast and it's, um, about an hour and a half.

And I got invited before they opened and I was. You know, so hesitating. 'cause it was before Christmas and I just didn't have the time. And then I thought, I'm just gonna do this for me. And that was one of the days that I remember most when I was reflecting on the year. And um, really I think if we have those.

Once a month even. It doesn't have to be a whole day for, for anyone who can't do that, but perhaps it's like two hours or having a massage and having a, you know, arrive early and then stay a bit later. That's what I used to do. So you've made it, you made it much. Stretch it a bit and, uh, or even go to like a, to a library or a bookstore or something.

Or a gallery or whatever, whatever people are interested in. But it just makes you feel so good. And that's a [00:40:00] kind of doing something alone, but you still are doing something that you love. So it's not, it might not be as uncomfortable. So for example, if you are a I on my birthday, I often go to, um, the National Gallery here.

And um, and I love doing that alone because it's a chance to just kind of be. With yourself and just thinking about, you, whatever you're looking at. And I think those kind of days just makes a big difference if you do them regularly, because then you, it's something look forward to and something that you can live on when you life gets fit.

Crazy. 

[00:40:33] Francesca: Yeah. Oh, I love that you can live on, and I love the idea of sort of storing up that memory and thinking, oh yeah, but I did get to do that. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll get to do it again. And you know, I do, I might feel like I don't have much time for myself right now, but it will happen. 

[00:40:48] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely.

So, um, I'm very interested in rituals and I, I hear already that you do so many good things, but I always ask my guests if they have a morning ritual. So do you have [00:41:00] a specific morning ritual or do you change. 

[00:41:04] Francesca: I, you know what? I think that the meditation is the cornerstone of everything. So that's the thing I will always do.

first thing. And I think I really, it's like almost a sort of, race to get that in as soon as possible before I look at my phone or do this Yeah. Or that. but it's, I mean, it is worth saying as well, like, I don't, don't use WhatsApp. Before midday. and the reason I don't use that particular social medium is because it's got lots of, I think it's quite frenetic the way that you'll be.

Communicating. Um, you know, all, whichever instant messenger you're using, lots of different bitty messages, lots of information to process, lots of groups. I find it really overwhelming. And so I think as a, especially as a self-employed person, I need to sort of, I'm my own boss.

I need to sort of be a bit more self-directed. So I think I, I guess it's an important part of what I don't do. and then beyond that, I tend to leave exercise until, Later in the day, but I make sure that wherever I'm working, so like my [00:42:00] co-working here, for instance, my co-working space back in London, they're always at least, a sort of 20, 25 minute walk.

So, I mean, I have the absolute luxury of, basically wearing yoga pants most days and wearing quite comfortable clothing. And I sort of, you know, again, I do my, I do my skincare regime, like I'm quite, I think that's a kind of a nice, you know, I always spend like, at they're like five, 10 minutes really making sure I've like, got my simple things, but like in my vitamin C serum, my SB, f, my, all of that.

and then I, then I sort of get out and I think that that walk, there's that, wonderful. Um. Latin phrase, which I'm going to butcher, but I think it's something like, Salvado ao, um, so Albido ao, it's either, it is solved by walking. I think that, yeah, that's my decompression time, that walk.

and quite often, especially if I'm feeling a bit calm, I, don't do that with headphones. I just sort of do that. And then something, sometimes if I'm feeling a bit, feeling the need, to, entertain myself, I do this, think it's a CBT exercise where I name.

three things I can see three things I can hear, and then three [00:43:00] things I can feel. And then I go down to two and then I go down to one. And that's doing that as I walk. And then maybe I'll do that. Once or twice. That's a ritual that allows me to then be grounded in my surroundings rather than just whatever's in my head.

[00:43:14] Kristina: Yeah. Still 

[00:43:14] Francesca: after that meditation and that, that waking up process, I'm sort of a creature in the world broadening out rather than just I dunno, ruminating on the same thoughts. So yeah, I guess those are a few things I do just to sort of get myself to that state of calm before the working day even begins.

[00:43:29] Kristina: Yeah, I love that. That's a great exercise to do, to get out of your head for sure. have you got a favorite book? 

[00:43:38] Francesca: Ooh. Um, putting me on the spot there. I have a lot, I have a lot of favorites. I mean, a couple that I loved recently, I think I'm gonna cop out and give that answer because I think it's ever changing, but a couple that I loved recently was, um, Cleopatra and, Frankenstein by Coco Millers.

which is a beautiful book about, I guess the sort of the tagline would be about a green [00:44:00] card marriage between, a kind of mixed age gap couple, but it's so much more than that. and. The other one I loved was a romantic comedy by Curtis Sittenfeld, which is a sort of, a retelling of a female writer who works on a show called, I think it's called The Night Owls in the book, but it's basically based on Saturday Night Live, the American show.

and it's all about, she comes up with this theory that, very beautiful women will go out with men who are sort of like naughty in their league. You know, it's, it's men will score above their league, but women can't. And she's, um, disproved that theory, the process of the action not to spoil too much.

So that's, that's a couple that I really loved. I love clever kind of literary, you know, literary fiction. Um, yeah, it's a real joy to read. 

[00:44:45] Kristina: Beautiful. Do you read any nonfiction? And have you got a thing written now on fiction? I, 

[00:44:49] Francesca: I used to read pretty much exclusively, well, when I was writing my book, I was reading almost exclusively nonfiction because I think you oscillate, you know, I'll have a year where I do one year where I do the other.

again, one that I've read [00:45:00] recently that I absolutely adore is, um, all about Love by Bell Hooks, which I think it I think it first published in 1999, but it seems just as relevant now to our, our age of sort of, um, dating situation, ships and all of those. It encourages the reader to reframe love in a much broader context.

Um, not as something that's specifically, Pertaining to romantic relationships, but all kinds of love in the world. and just the state of being actively loving. and I think I'd recommend it to anyone at any live stage. It's absolutely beautiful. My best friend gifted it to me, uh, a few months ago.

[00:45:35] Kristina: Oh, beautiful. I haven't read that one. Putting that on the list. Thank you so much. I just wanna finish with a last question, and that is, knowing what you know now. What would you have told yourself, say when you're in your late teens? In terms of what would you have learned or what kind of advice would you given yourself?

[00:45:58] Francesca: Honestly? Um, I think [00:46:00] my five-year-old self had it all. Right. You know, just keep reading and writing because Yeah. You know, increasingly so I think, you know, the curiosity, To read and to access these, those new worlds and to just create, um, it's harder to come by. Uh, I think social media has a lot to answer for in that respect.

And I think that just doing those things, that's what will set you apart. That's what will make you into the person that you want to be. Yeah. 

[00:46:25] Kristina: Beautiful. Thank you so very much. I absolutely love this conversation. And um, it's a topic that I think a lot of people will be interested in digging deeper.

So we obviously will link to your book and, um, I am so grateful to have you had, have had you on. So thank you so much. 

[00:46:43] Francesca: Oh, thank you. You and me both. It was a really wonderful conversation. Thank you so much. 

[00:46:47] Kristina: Wow. That was so inspiring. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you are walking away from this episode. Feeling inspired to spend some time with yourself. Just you. [00:47:00] Solitude can be a beautiful space where clarity, creativity, and calm come alive.

And if your heart is whispering for more of that, I will welcome you to join My Solitude Retreat this May on the morning to Peninsula. It is going to be a nurturing experience and I'll show you exactly how to create your own solitude rituals at home too. Until next time, keep dreaming and keep listening to your inner voice.

You are so worth the time. be back on Monday with another Monday morning motivation episode. I'll see you then.