#478 - The Energy Game with Amantha Imber

We all have the same 24 hours in a day, but we certainly don't all have the same amount of energy. 

And if you've ever found yourself feeling constantly tired, overwhelmed, or wondering why you're exhausted even after taking a break, then I think you're going to love today's episode.

Today I'm chatting with psychologist, bestselling author and researcher Amantha Imber about her wonderful new book The Energy Game.

I've admired Amantha's work for years, and this conversation is packed with practical, science-backed ideas that can genuinely help us protect our energy and create a life we love.

If you've been craving more energy, more focus and more joy in your days, I know you'll take so much away from this conversation.

So grab a cup of tea, your journal if you have one nearby, and join us for what I know will be an inspiring and practical conversation.

And if you're ready to create a life you love with more intention and support, I'd also love you to explore our DL Coaching programs at https://www.yourdreamlifestartshere.com/course.

As always, I’d LOVE to hear what resonated most with you - so please share and let’s keep the conversation going in the Dream Life Podcast Facebook Group here.    

Have a wonderful weekend …and remember, it all starts with a dream 💛

Dream Life & kikki.K Founder

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:01:20] Kristina: Amanda, welcome to my podcast. I cannot tell you how excited I am to chat with you, 'cause we haven't seen each other for so long, and also, there's been so much going on in your life, so a very warm welcome

[00:01:33] Amantha: It's so good to be back, and it's just, it's good to see you as well.

[00:01:37] Kristina: Yeah. So for our listeners, me and Amantha used to go for walks, and, try to solve the world's, challenge- maybe not the world's challenges, but our own challenges, and, share our, experience and wisdom, et cetera. So, I miss that b- being in Sydney, but you know you are often in Sydney, so we need to make sure we do that while you come here as well, and me the same in Melbourne.

[00:01:59] [00:02:00] Yeah.

[00:02:00] Yeah. So we are here to talk about, you are author machine. You just are so good at not just putting out, you know, simple books. Like, this is science-backed, unbelievable, so many amazing tools, and really thick, and I've enjoyed it so much. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. But before we do, why did you write another book, and why about energy?

[00:02:27] Amantha: Oh, wow. I mean, this book was so to solve my own problems. it was definitely me search, as I feel a lot of research is. And in 2024, I completely and utterly burnt out, and I am more than happy to, to go into that story. But because of my own experience and, you know, because I, realized just how common it was.

[00:02:51] I d- I don't think I'd actually hit burnout before, despite being a business owner for, I think, I don't know, 15 or [00:03:00] 16 years at that point in time. it was the most horrible year that I've had in business, and I found my way out of it and, you know, essentially did a 180 on my energy levels. And I just thought, " I, I need to get this stuff into a book, and I need to get it out there," because there's so many people that if they're not struggling with burnout, they're possibly teetering on the edge or at, you know, probably what is most common is that they're just feeling tired all the time.

[00:03:25] And there are a lot of people that are tired of feeling tired

[00:03:28] Kristina: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And, there's a couple of things I wanna... I definitely wanna go into the burnout because touch wood, I have never had a burnout, but I've certainly been on the edge. And, I think there's m- a lot of things I didn't do well in my crazy journey.

[00:03:44] One thing I did do well is I always listened to my body first because I just felt like there's no way I can do all this if I am not good. And it do- didn't mean, of course, that I had full energy days. There were certainly days where, you know, I was really good at, think, listening and then, you know, if I needed to take [00:04:00] a day off and if I needed to research something that I was struggling with, I did a lot of that, and that's kind of became my passion.

[00:04:06] and what I think is so good with either, you know, preventing it or once you have it, deal with it, and then we become really good at sharing it. So I would actually love for you to share a little bit about your burnout because I see this so often, and that's why I think I saw it really, close many times through my journey.

[00:04:26] And that's what really scared me 'cause I was like, " If that happens to our business in the beginning, we won't survive," because there were so many things that was relying on me, especially in the beginning. Definitely in the end there was... We had an amazing team, so it was all fine then. But in the beginning, as founders, a lot of things are if we are not around and if we are not the best possible version of ourselves, first it's much, much harder and sometimes, you know, the business stops because of it.

[00:04:52] So I'd love for you to share it because, you are incredible when it comes to habits, health and energy, and [00:05:00] productivity. So you actually had, compared to a lot of people, you had incredible tools already and you still got there. And, I see this over and over and over again. sometimes it doesn't matter how much, knowledge we have, it's doing the daily stuff, the small stuff is really what makes a difference, which is your book, which we're gonna get into.

[00:05:18] But let's start talking about your, um, burnout.

[00:05:21] Amantha: Yeah. So I would say it started in 2023, which was a hard year, and, and I could tell that my resources, like my physical, my mental, my, e- emotional resources were starting to wear a little bit thin. But it was in 2024 where things really reached a bit of a climax. And I remember really clearly in the middle of 2024, it was June, and I was catching up with a friend of mine.

[00:05:50] We were going for a walk, another walking friend. and her name's Sabina, and she's a clinical psychologist. And I was sharing with Sabina what, like, [00:06:00] this, really strange fantasy that I was having that I was slightly concerned about. And, and I said to Sabina, " I'm finding myself wishing that I would get really, really sick, like so sick that I would need to go to hospital, but it wouldn't be anything terminal.

[00:06:17] And I could go to hospital, check in for a week, and I would not be allowed on any devices. Nobody could reach me, and I would just have just peace and quiet and silence for a week. And I'd get some sympathy cards because people would feel really sorry for me. And then, like literally the hardest choice I would have to make, the hardest decision I would have to make for one week would be do I have the lime jelly or the orange jelly?

[00:06:45] And then a week later, I would emerge fully recharged and ready to get back into it, and on I would go with life." And I explained that to Sabina and I said, " Am I going insane?" And I [00:07:00] mean, I'm a psychologist and I, you know, I shouldn't be playing around with words like that, but hey. and she said to me, " You know what?

[00:07:06] In my private practice, I have seen this so often. This is so common that I even have a name for it. I call it the getting hit by a bus fantasy." And when she put a name on it, I remember feeling two things. Firstly, I felt really validated and, quote-unquote, " normal" because it's like, oh wow, I'm not the only person having this really strange, concerning fantasy.

[00:07:32] But then I also felt, oh gosh, it's normal. That means there's lots of other people struggling with this. I'm not alone. So there's comfort in that. But there's also, you know, as a psychologist myself, I'm like, wow, that's really awful that there are so many people feeling like this. And that was really when I acknowledged to myself Oh man, this is not good and things really, really have to change."

[00:07:54] Kristina: Yeah. Wow. There's so many things in that alone. when I read that in your book, [00:08:00] I so got it because, that's what I ha- like, maybe not like that because I don't like hospital food, I don't like jelly. But, but this is, this was so interesting, and it got me, um... When I read it, like, I read it at night, and then in the morning I journaled about it.

[00:08:18] This is kinda my way of thinking and, getting through a lot of things that I'm thinking about. And what came to mind is I have had that feeling, but not hospital, but just going away on my own. And, I actually started that long time ago when my kids were really little, because I remember... This is similar, things which I actually made happen, but I got quite a lot of, negative comments about it, a lot of people questioning it, et cetera.

[00:08:43] And I'll share it, because this is similar. So when you have young kids, like, there's so many incredible things, but running a business, traveling lots, and I feel like as an introvert, I need that space in between. And when you have young kids, you don't get that. Even though I had a lot of [00:09:00] support and, like, I had it really, really well.

[00:09:02] So I can only imagine for those people, you know, single parents, et cetera. So, so I, I, I just wanna acknowledge I was really privileged to have so much support, but I still kept thinking Mother's Day for me, it's like, it's not Mother's Day. It's like, first we, we were always going to my kind of, I'm not married, but mother-in-law, which I absolutely loved, because she deserved being celebrated 'cause she did really hard.

[00:09:28] But I felt like it was you know, breakfast and then we need to go for lunch, and it was like, it was like it was not Mother's Day from what I would think was a Mother's Day. For Mother's Day for me was similar to kind of your hospital but because I was traveling so much, I wanted to be home.

[00:09:43] So I didn't wanna go away, but I wanted to be home alone. I didn't wanna have to, when I finally got to sit down on the couch with a cup of tea and a book or my journal, or just thinking, having to, you know, attend to someone and help someone and, you know, love my children and of course I wanted to, but I just wanted a [00:10:00] day.

[00:10:00] So that was my wish for my Mother's Day for the first one. And my girlfriends were like, "What? that's just so strange." And, you know, and I said, "I wanna do the Mother's Day normal, but then I want to have a weekend o- the following weekend or we celebrate all the other people before, and I have a whole day," or eventually it got to a weekend.

[00:10:18] And then it got to a stage where Paul actually took the kids and visited, his brother and, stayed for a night. And that alone was just, I just got so much energy. And then I felt when I came back, I was much better mother, much better partner, much better business person. So I can so relate to it. And I was just lucky that I had that, similar to you, like, you know, getting it before it got really bad, before you got hospitalized.

[00:10:44] So I s- so I so understand it, but I also wanna talk about here is, sometimes our hardest times becomes our best work. Like the work that you're putting to this is just incredible. So why did you wanna share it with, uh, [00:11:00] everyone else?

[00:11:00] Amantha: Well, I mean, I think when you write a book, there has to be a very compelling why. Because, you know, as, as you'd know, when you're running a business, doing something that is not running the business that is a really significant and time-consuming project, if you don't have a clear why, then you are just gonna feel so resentful towards that project.

[00:11:21] And that's what I've learned. I mean, the, The Energy Game is my fifth book, and think I also just forget how hard it is to write a book as well. but yeah, I, I just thought this is so important. There are so many people that are struggling with just being chronically depleted and exhausted, and I knew what had worked for me.

[00:11:42] And I thought, if I can get myself out of what was just the most horrible year that I've had in business, the level of exhaustion that I felt was like nothing I'd experienced before, not even like in the, the newborn kid days. it was just beyond that. And I [00:12:00] thought, I need to get this out into a book so that people learn from my experience and have some really easy-to-apply and quick-to-apply tools that they can bounce back, and recharge properly and, you know, really protect their boundaries and protect their energy

[00:12:15] Kristina: Yeah, I don't know what the stats are, uh, you might, but with... The burnout must be so much higher compared to when I started my first business, which is kind of close to 30 years ago. Because now, like, it was hard then, but I feel now it's, in some ways it's easy because you have all the technology to help you, so it's...

[00:12:35] So that component is amazing. I just feel you, we are constantly on. And for people who are not working, 'cause not everyone who's listening here would have th- their own business, but for them it would be perhaps always being, checking their work emails. But also, not just work emails, but all the social media.

[00:12:53] It's always, like, when I go to airport, which I do a lot, there's just not... Well, well there are a few people, which I love to see when [00:13:00] people are journaling or reading a paper book, or even a Kindle. I find that, that must take its toll because you're never bored, you never really just sit and think.

[00:13:10] And, um, I often share on my podcast one of my absolute best thing that I've done, which I actually started when, we were living in Elwood, which I think when we started to go for a walk. I took five minutes every morning, and I still do, five minutes, no journal, no device, with my coffee. I love my coffee so much.

[00:13:27] And, uh, it just seems so simple, but it's my highlight in the morning because, there's nowhere to go, nowhere to be, and I don't have to do anything, and I can just sit there. And I often sit out, now in Sydney I sit outside. In, in Elwood I used to sit at our window if it was cold. And, it's just such a great thing.

[00:13:43] So, so what's your thought on that with terms of technology? Because surely that must be... Because especially if people are scrolling at night, which means that they get the blue light and sleep is... It's just a bad, bad, bad habit.

[00:13:57] Amantha: It is. I mean, you know, digital devices are, you know, [00:14:00] a, terrible for our energy, and I'm sure that is not new news to anyone. I would say, cause it's funny with a book because there's typically between about sort of six to 12 months, probably about six months before you see, you know, the final proofs of the book, can't make any more big changes to the time that it's actually out on bookshelves.

[00:14:20] And I do a lot of work in the AI space, and, one of my two businesses, Inventium AI, that's all we do. We help people build better skills with AI. And so while I'm writing this book, I'm obviously using AI a lot. I'm researching AI and the impact that that is happening on our brain. and I'm pretty deep into that research now, but it's, you know, it's too late to include a lot of that in the book.

[00:14:42] But I'd say the way that we're using AI, I mean, there is more context switching going on than ever before. Like, if you are someone that is a daily user of AI, which, which is a lot of people, I would say that is the majority of most knowledge workers right now. And you know, you've [00:15:00] got your, chatbot, you know, whether that's Copilot or Claude or ChatGPT or Gemini open, and you give it a task, and you're waiting for it to do that task.

[00:15:08] But you know, hey, oh my God, you have to wait like 10 seconds. That's so long. So you open up another tab, or open up another task on your, AI software, and then you give it something else to do. And then, oh, and then you go back to the first one and, oh, has that finished? Oh, I need to prompt it again because it hasn't given me the output I want.

[00:15:24] And you're, you're constantly switching back and forth between your, different AI tasks or chats that you're asking it to do, as well as just the normal context switching that exists for the way most of us operate in and out of our inbox or, you know, on and off our phone, multitasking when we're in virtual meetings, as so many people do, which just, you know, it's just-- I mean, it's rude as well as inefficient.

[00:15:50] and that is all just frying our brain. And literally there is a term brain fry, which was coined by some researchers at, um, at Boston Consulting Group, and if you are [00:16:00] getting to the end of a day and your brain is feeling fried, then that is mental exhaustion. And it's a little bit different to burnout, but certainly it is, uh, like your mental energy is shot.

[00:16:12] And I see so many, office workers, knowledge workers feeling like that at the end of the day now. And like something's got to give because that is not sustainable to be spending all your workdays and finishing all your workdays feeling like that. It's terrible

[00:16:28] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more, more. So let's diving into, the book. you ha- which, which since I read it, I have been really thinking about the three buckets that you have put it into. And, it's was interesting 'cause this morning... So my, partner, he runs an AI business, so does similar to what you guys doing, but he focusing on founders, implementing AI into their businesses because he has a very strategic, business mind.

[00:16:56] Because I think AI is amazing, but you can go, as you know, 100 miles an hour in the [00:17:00] wrong direction. and most founders don't have time to implement it. So that's what he does. But he has, like, three different screens going at any given time. and then, like, when we, uh... he works around the clock.

[00:17:11] He's really passionate. He's a typical entrepreneur, really passionate about what he's doing, which is so great. But when we, uh, when I see him in the kitchen when we're getting a coffee in the morning, and it's like, 'cause he's been up since, like 3:00 AM, I'm an early riser, but not that, that early.

[00:17:26] I've been thinking a lot about the buckets because I'm like, actually some of the questions that sometimes I get really early in the morning where I actually steal my first two hours I wanna have just for me. I don't want any input. I don't wanna have any questions. I, This is where all my creativity kind of happens.

[00:17:45] so I, um, I don't want a lot of input. So anyway, so since I read your book, I have, really thought of that, that actually, things like that really drains me. So do you wanna talk about or share your three buckets and what impact that that can

[00:17:59] Amantha: So this is a [00:18:00] really If you've identified that y- you need Energy Game book because energy is feeling shot and you're just feeling chronically depleted, then often bringing awareness going on with your energy will help shine light okay, how we get out of this?

[00:18:17] And most people, when they think of their energy, they just go, ""Oh, well, there's my energy." Like, "I'm, I'm tired," or, "I'm, exhausted," or, energy." And it's this one sort of abstract, nebulous concept. But what learnt through researching, um, for The Energy Game is three energy accounts, not just the one.

[00:18:36] So we've got our physical energy account, which is how are we feeling in body? Like, do I have enough energy go for a 30-minute jog this morning? You know, if, if, you're that way inclined. Um, so that's our physical energy account. Or, just feeling like I just, oh my gosh, I don't even to move from couch, um, or, you know, get up out of Then we've got our mental energy account, and this is about whether, [00:19:00] you know, we may be, you know, if we're, we go sit at our computer, and is your brain feeling super sharp and focused and able to make really quick, decisions and power things? Or are you just feeling like your brain is in this cloud of fog, and of those things require, um, cognitive effort just feel hard.

[00:19:19] So that's the second energy account, the mental energy. And then third, we've got energy account. And I think that this is the account that is less and I don't think people think about it that much when they think about their energy. So in terms of your emotional energy account, like are you feeling resilient? Um, you know, constructive just like water off a duck's back? You take it on board if it's relevant and given to you by someone you respect, and if it's not, whatever, just kind of get on with your day. Or are you finding that you're just crying at the drop of a hat, like sensitive to, um, the things that people are saying, just catastrophizing all the time, and that's your emotional energy [00:20:00] account.

[00:20:00] And what I found I ran quite a large scale energy experiment with 1,300 wonderful volunteers/guinea pigs who for six weeks we worked together applying a lot of the strategies in the book. And the very first week involved people tracking their energy and actually bringing awareness.

[00:20:20] Like, is it your physical energy account that is feeling like it's just overdrawn, or it your mental energy or your emotional energy, or is it two or maybe is it all three? And once we've got awareness of that, we can then go, "Ah, okay, I know what's on." And it makes it easier to go, this is what I need to do next."

[00:20:40] Kristina: that was so helpful. That was like, when I, when I started reading that I was like, "This makes so much sense." So as a public speaker, I often think, "My gosh, why am I so tired and exhausted after just one hour work?" Like, obviously, you know, as speakers we need to prepare before, but it's, never on the day bef- like, we do that well in advance [00:21:00] hopefully, most of us.

[00:21:01] And, um, you know, if we travel we, we most likely travel the day before if it's requires more than an hour travel or whatever. But spoke in Orange last week, so I drove there the day before, which I love a road trip, quiet, thinking. Like, I just love it, absolutely, and I always wanted to go to Orange so I was really excited.

[00:21:19] And then I did my talk at lunchtime, and then I drove home. And then on Friday I was so exhausted. I was like, "What is wrong with me?" And then I was like, "Actually th- that hour and that give," it wasn't just an hour, it was like probably, you know, I was there beforehand to meet and greet the organizers, et cetera.

[00:21:38] And then after meeting all the guests and stuff, and it was fantastic 'cause I always get so many incredible people talking about how the products that we have created over the years have impacted them, and so I absolutely love that. And then when I drove home I was like so excited, full on adrenaline and excitement.

[00:21:55] And then on Friday And I had, like, a full day on Friday planned working at home, but I [00:22:00] was like, "Oh my gosh, I actually just need..." And I wasn't physically exhausted. I went for a walk and I felt so much better. So

[00:22:07]

[00:22:07] Kristina: how can we actually know

[00:22:08] Amantha: And this is where, in, the book I talk about energy vampires, and these are the things that can suck our energy, and they can suck different so, you know, from the physical, mental, and emotional accounts. And, you know, before we look to rebuild our energy, it's really great to have awareness of what are the energy vampires in your life?

[00:22:27] And they might be taking more energy from you think. So in the book, I've got this energy points chart, was adapted from the work of Jill Calder that she put together during the COVID years. And you can have a look. Like, it lists a whole lot different activities that many of us do, and I think we often underestimate just how many energy points something is requiring.

[00:22:48] Like, I give the example of, um, it's like, you know, socializing more than six people, and for many of us, like if you think about the networking event or business event that you might or [00:23:00] a conference, like, that's, that's that You know, many, many people at these kinds of business events, and I don't know too that love the idea of networking and small talk.

[00:23:11] I think the majority of people hate that kind of thing, as do I. And it's right at the top of the energy points chart. Like, that's 10 energy points that that kind evening is draining, where you might just go, ""Well, you know, I'll just stay for an hour. I'll mingle, I'll do my thing, and then I'll go." But it's like, no, that actually a huge drain on our energy. And if you think about your keynote speaking example, and I very much relate to that you know, we, we both do a lot of keynote speaking, is that that is drawing from all accounts. There's the, the energy account. You are on stage, you are standing, you are moving around.

[00:23:50] There's obviously all the travel as well. There's the mental energy that is required to stay on point, the stories and the research and whatever [00:24:00] else you're talking about. And then there's also emotional energy involved, you know, particularly, you know, if you are choosing to share stories that, you know, um, you know, sort of make you feel vulnerable. the, the, the kind of socialization that is happening before and after an event like that, which I know for me, that really drains emotional energy account because, you know, like you, I, I'm introverted. I love the company of myself, and I don't love the company of people that I don't know. Um, I find that really, really And so it's easy to just go, ""Well, she's just up on stage for an Like, why are you so tired after that? That seems crazy." But when you unpack it and think about those three energy accounts, it starts to make more sense.

[00:24:43] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. It's been, it's been re- it was really helpful, um, having read that to really understand that. So, cannot recommend anyone who are, finding that, that they are a bit confused when it comes to, uh, why they are so tired after certain events. And everyone will of course be [00:25:00] very different in terms of what they're doing, and I think it also depends if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or perhaps a little bit in between.

[00:25:06] But I now wanna go into some of the incredible, the, like we-- where everyone needs to read it obviously, because there are so many. I would actually like to start, Like, if you had to name a couple, because there are so many, which one is your favorite? 'Cause I, I was like, I was gonna take out my three, and I was like, "There's so many."

[00:25:24] But I thought I'll ask you, and then

[00:25:26] I'll

[00:25:26] Amantha: 'Cause I'd love to hear which ones were your favorite, which resonated most. So in The Energy Game, um, and, and it is a a prescription. You don't have to do all 53 strategies that did make it into the book. It is about picking one or two at random, seeing how they go, and essentially running your own energy experiments.

[00:25:43] But I break down the different challenges or strategies in The Energy Game into three different categories. So you've got your boost challenges, so this is where you are exhausted, but you need to perform, so you need something that is going to give you that instant, immediate hit of energy. And most of the [00:26:00] boost challenges take less than five minutes to do.

[00:26:02] The second category are rest or strategies. And what I talk about in the book is that people are engaging in fake rest. Um, so, you know, similar news, it can be quite compelling, but it's kind of lacking substance. So you might go, "Well, I spent three hours binge-watching Netflix last night.

[00:26:22] That was rest." I was like, "Well, not really. That's not a real recharge." Or maybe, you know, you spent 30 minutes sucked into the, black hole that is social doom scrolling. It's like, well, that's kinda doing the opposite of recharging you. Um, so there are challenges are all about how rest properly?

[00:26:41] How do you actually recharge but do it quickly? And again, most of the, most of the, rest strategies are, you like, from a couple of to about 10 minutes long, so they can be done really quickly to genuinely recharge your batteries. And then the third category of challenges are protect strategies.

[00:26:56] And with protect strategies, I do think are [00:27:00] ones that you wouldn't necessarily think about energy, but what happens for a lot of us that we haven't got great boundaries in place protect our energy. So even if we boost our energy or we properly recharge, we've still got holes the, you know, like that energy bucket.

[00:27:15] I, I think of, um, you know, there's a challenge on, uh, Survivor. I'm a huge Survivor. I don't know if you are as well or

[00:27:22] no, Oh, okay. Well, look, I think I've watched all 50 seasons of US Survivor, and there's one particular challenge where, um, the contestants have bucket, but the bucket has holes and they have to fill this big from to the beach to fill up this bucket that's got the leaky, um, the, the holes in it where the leaking out of as soon as they fill up that bucket with beach water, and then they have to run, like, about 100 or 200 meters to this container.

[00:27:49] Um, and the water is just so they have to move really quickly. And I think that that's how a lot of us approach energy. We like, "Well, you know, I'm okay. Like, I'm, I'm, [00:28:00] I'm, I'm caffeinated." you know, if you're not it is like that bucket with the holes in it.

[00:28:04] And so the protect st- challenges how do you plug those holes so your energy is not leaking out? in the first place. So they're the three challenges. In terms of the strategies that I use often, if I think about the boost strategies, probably my favorite one there, or I've got a few favorites, but certainly, and, um, and I think this podcast peppermint roll-on container. So it's got peppermint oil in it, and, uh, a- and basically if I, little roll-on like, like a deodorant, but it's, you know, small. And then I can just rub that on my wrist and if I inhale that, I get a beautiful smell.

[00:28:39] And why that is so powerful is that there has been some really fascinating research done into the impact of scent and how that affects our energy or reduces our fatigue levels. And what we know about peppermint scent is that it is incredibly powerful at boosting our energy. So there's been sorts of research done here, like where they've [00:29:00] put people in a driving simulator that's really boring, and then um, they've basically pumped out scents into that driving s- simulator, and they've found that peppermint scent significantly reduces people's fatigue levels when they are in a very boring driving simulator task. And so just by sniffing some, um, some, peppermint a impact on our energy levels. So I have that as a little go-to during the day, um, that, that I absolutely Um, now something else I lot and, um, and I'm just and this is a strategy. And it's on page 201 of Energy Game.

[00:29:37] So it's called a silent walk, and what silent walk is all about is if you think about many or even minutes per is your mobile phone out of reach, arm's length? And most people, the answer is pretty close to zero What that means is that easy for us when we waiting for or feeling, you [00:30:00] know, God forbid, bored, is that we just reach for our phone and we put more stimulus in our brain.

[00:30:04] And there's not too many minutes during a day where there is no stimulus going into our brain, whether that be, you know, doing work at our computer, listening to a podcast as we drive, um, s- like, you know, having, family, coworkers. And our brain needs time to stimulus-free. So the silent walk is based on some where they actually got a group of people, and they asked them to go for a 12-minute walk.

[00:30:32] And one group were told to look at their phones while walked, like just scroll to your heart's content. And then the other group also walked for 12 minutes through a park, and they were not allowed to have any devices on them, nothing going into their brain, no, um, you know, AirPods or anything like that.

[00:30:52] And they looked at the energy level and also just the mood of these people when they returned from that 12-minute walk. And perhaps not surprisingly, [00:31:00] the that had no incoming stimulus were a lot more present. They felt a lot more calm. They felt physically more Um, they felt in a much better And so in the book, I a silent walk, where you leave all devices, all inputs at home or in your office and just go for a 10, 12-minute walk just around the block. Get And you will find that compared to going for a short walk while, say, listening to a or some music or having phone and kind of half scrolling on your phone and half you know, wandering off to the coffee shop to get a coffee or whatever you're doing, you will come back feeling so more rested and ready to on with your day. So is definitely my go-to from, um, from the rest Now, in the protect category of ooh, th- there are quite a few that I I would say one that I do a lot [00:32:00] yes, but. So I am someone that is ... I like to think of myself as a people pleaser, but I, I just, I so fall back into that.

[00:32:10] I want to please. I have a high need to be liked. I do like conflict. So when someone asks me to do something, when a request is made on my time, I much prefer yes and not no. But time is finite. I possibly say yes to incoming, um, requests on my time in my But saying no doesn't feel good. And so if you are that does not which is, you know, certainly a lot of people, yes, but can be really great because, you know, let's just say you've got saying, "Hey, you know, uh, can I've got this, um, strategy project that working on, and can I bring you into this two-hour meeting where we're gonna be talking about project?

[00:32:53] I'd really love to have you there." And I'm thinking, two hours to give." So that's where yes, but is great. You can say, [00:33:00] "Yes, but give you 10 let's have a chat on the phone. I will share my thoughts with you, then you can take that into your two-hour strategy meeting." So it's saying yes, but is constraints. It's your boundaries. So I can, but with these constraints or with these boundaries. So I use yes, but a lot, and I absolutely Tell, tell, what are, what are the, um, what are that resonated the most with you?

[00:33:27] Kristina: Well, first I just wanna respond to yours, your three. F- first one, the mint roller. So I am travelling overseas tomorrow, and I am gonna go and get one because I often bring, some kind of essential oil on the plane because often it's like, uh, I just scent has a big impact on me.

[00:33:43] So I'm actually... But I never, I didn't know much about research around mint, and I never had one, so that is on my list to get today. So that's really good. So I haven't tried that one, but I'm really excited about that one, and I can, completely get it 'cause I love, smell. So I have [00:34:00] herbs, and I love drinking, like, fresh mint, tea that I make myself.

[00:34:04] So I get that completely. So, but I haven't done that one, so that, I'm excited about that one, so I'm gonna try, and I'll let you know. the silent one is like, it's so me. Like, I felt like it started with me. So I'm similar to you, love reading, love amazing podcasts, love digging deep into research, et cetera.

[00:34:22] But what I found because I walk every morning, and this used to be my, favorite. I just could not wait to get s- you know, the latest podcast on or a new book or whatever. And you know, I have two book clubs, so I need to keep up. Like it's, there's... I read a lot and I also read a lot for my own, I just, not just for the book clubs, but what, because I really love it.

[00:34:41] So for me, silent walk is an absolute must, but I wanna do both. So, um, I thought I'd share what I do. now when I live in Sydney, I have a new, walk so my first half an hour, so I probably go out for about an hour, maybe sometimes a little bit longer. I, first half an hour is just silence, and I go to a [00:35:00] specific point where it's just, all I can see is water, and it's so beautiful.

[00:35:04] and I, do a bit of five-minute meditation there, and then I feel like I've had my half an hour walk just thinking. like I often walk when the sun, gets up, depending on what the season is in. cause sometimes I go earlier than that, but there's always sunrise at some stage of my walk.

[00:35:19] And then, when I get to that point after my five minutes meditation, I feel so amazing, and I'm so ready then for some input. So I have been able to work out, both. I often drive just with silence. actually I think my four-hour trip to Orange and back, it was 90% silence. because first it was like when I got there, I was so excited, and I just felt for the first hour, all I could think about was what I was grateful for.

[00:35:45] Because you probably know, my dream for a very long time was to move to Sydney. So, There's not a day where I just think, c- I'm living it now. It took me 20 years to make it happen. so silence for sure. and then, um, which one was your [00:36:00] last one?

[00:36:00] Amantha: the yes but strategy. Mm

[00:36:02] Kristina: Yes.

[00:36:02] So that is something I have to say I'm really good at saying no.

[00:36:05] I,

[00:36:06] Amantha: That doesn't surprise me.

[00:36:07] Kristina: yeah, no, I, that's what there's a lot of things I need to improve, but that one I am really, really good at because I have this very big need of my own space. and, you know, the first 20 years in business was just grinding really hard saying yes to a lot of things. I am now very, very good at saying no.

[00:36:26] which means that I actually probably need to get better at saying yes. So I wanted to respond to that, but, but the silent walk 100%. the other one that really, it was so great to read this 'cause I didn't know this about you because I am so similar My ideal temperature of water is 30 plus.

[00:36:47] Like, I used to make a joke and then, and it wasn't a joke, but it, it kind of became a joke that I would only swim in the Maldives because that's like 28 plus,

[00:36:57] um, water. [00:37:00] And, what really changed that for me, because so growing up in a cold climate countries, being Sweden, I never liked the cold and when we moved to Melbourne, I was like, " Yes, much warmer than Sweden, but still cold."

[00:37:12] So I was like, "Why?" And I don't wanna live to Qu- in Queensland. I felt like Sydney was my kind of perfect temperature. but still never really swam and, uh, never like very, very rarely went for a dip in Melbourne or, you know, surrounds and not much here either. More, but not much. And then I went skiing in Norway in January and came back with a knee issue and a foot issue as well, uh, which meant that I couldn't go for my walks.

[00:37:38] And I was like, "That to me is for my, my walk is like, "If there's one thing that I will do forever, it's walking." Like, I can skip r- running. I can skip everything else. Walking for me, nature, it's the whole thing. so I was like, " Oh my gosh, what am I gonna do?"

[00:37:50] So there is a place it's very close to us, and they have saunas and they have, cold plunges. I don't call it ice bath because ice bath for me sounds [00:38:00] really bad, but they're really cold. And, and, um, so I, and I love the heat, so a sauna's always been something I love. But the thought of doing the, you know, the cold plunge, like no, why would I?

[00:38:11] And I remember going to Antarctica and everyone was like, " why aren't you gonna..." And I did it, but I, um, w- I was like, "Why would I do that?" Like, I don't do that in Sweden. I don't do anywhere. Like I'm happy to watch people do it, but in the end I did it, but more for the experience. But, but, anyway, I then took two weeks and I sauna every day and I started, and this is, this is why I think for anyone who are similar to us, how can we overcome it?

[00:38:38] I, in the beginning, I just dipped up to my knee because it was my knee and my foot that I needed to cause I heard so much benefits from it. So I was like, "If I could just put my, feet and my leg in, that's all I need to do." And then you know, I was getting hot, and it was funny because it was all these guys that was, like, so muscly, and they, and they kept saying to me, " How long are you gonna sit there?

[00:38:57] You are a machine." And I'm like, "I love the heat. Like, that [00:39:00] doesn't bother me. but I, I can't do what you guys are doing, sitting there for three minutes." Anyway, so I eventually, over two weeks, got to, um, you know, dipping down and staying for a few seconds. But I was like, I could not wait to get out of there.

[00:39:11] Then my girlfriend, Dr. Tori Giles, she is, a doctor in Chinese medicine, but she is also a, um, instructor in, breath. and, she does a lot of that. And I was like, "Nah, I can't do it." So on my way to my sauna, and she said, "How, can you manage and go?" I said, "Yeah, for a few seconds I can manage, but I'm not interested in anymore."

[00:39:31] She said, " just stay and see if you can start breathing and see if you can do it." And, and I was like, " Mm, why would I?" And then I thought, I really respect her, and I really, um, I thought, you know, "If anyone else can, why can't I?" So then I started, and now, like, my now go-to is three minutes.

[00:39:47] And if, if, someone said that to me even, like, six months ago, I'd be like, "There's no way."

[00:39:53] I was like, I actually didn't want to. Like, not even thinking I could or couldn't. It was like, "Why would I do it?" Like, I [00:40:00] couldn't think of anything worse. Now I'm addicted. So now I, we just, I actually just had on my podcast a few weeks ago, there's a new place here where I live in Manly in Sydney called Extra Clubs, and I just had the founders because I was, I just got so fascinated with all their research when it comes to, to sauna and cold plunges.

[00:40:20] So I think, that one was, like, such a s- thing. And what I got out of your book, because I can't always go to have a sauna for an hour and all the things,

[00:40:29] the cold in my face.

[00:40:31] Amantha: Yes. And so I, like I am someone, I can't ever imagine that I would be okay with an ice bath or a cold plunge. And so I wanted to dig into the research and understand, and I talk about in the book the minimum viable dose. Like, what is the minimum amount of time you need to engage in any of the activities I write about to get a measurable benefit?

[00:40:51] And with cold water, the minimum viable dose is actually just 30 seconds of cold water at the end of your shower. Like, that will get you [00:41:00] amazing benefits. And also perhaps less than that is just splashing cold water on your face or, you know, say, if you're wearing makeup during the day, and that's perhaps not ideal, you can get ice packs that you can put on your face that are molded to your face, and just leaving that on for a couple of minutes.

[00:41:15] That will give you an enormous energy boost. And it also, the cold water, and certainly the cold showers, even just 30 seconds, helps a lot with your immune system as well. so certainly in this particular study, people that had just a 30-second cold shower compared to those that had warm showers every day, they called in sick for work less.

[00:41:33] So, you know, their immune system was functioning more effectively

[00:41:36] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. I can so relate it, so I'm definitely gonna, I'm gonna try the... Like, this, cold shower, I'm still not a big fan on. I'm much all or nothing. All or nothing personality, uh, sadly. But, um, the other thing that really, um, that I was gonna say about, going for a walk, I had T.J.

[00:41:53] Power. Do you know of T.J. Power? So he wrote the book called The

[00:41:57] Dose Effect. Yeah. [00:42:00] Yes, He came on my podcast a while ago and we talked about his book. So his book has been out for a while, but it took me a long time to get him on the podcast. But he was talk- 'cause I said to him, " What's your favorite part of the book?"

[00:42:11] Or something like that. And he said, "Well, now since the book has been out," he said, "I've been so deep in research on walking barefoot," as you were saying before, that 12 minutes with nothing on, there's no earplugs, nothing. But not even... So he was talking a lot about all the things that we get from the Earth with not having all the technology on us.

[00:42:32] So that is one thing I haven't implemented yet, but we just moved, still in just within where we were living before. But now we have a little backyard, so I can walk, and that's my thing to just start the day just for a few minutes. He said the research around that is incredible. And I'm just about to go to Sweden.

[00:42:49] We have a backyard there, so that's probably gonna be my,

[00:42:52] thing

[00:42:52] to implement next.

[00:42:53] Amantha: love that. Yeah, we've got so many nerve endings in our feet, and I write about the idea of doing a [00:43:00] barefoot walk in The Energy Game. it is a really great way to recharge. even if you're just standing still on a little patch of grass in your backyard or at a local park or something like that

[00:43:12] Kristina: Absolutely, yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. so for anyone who's listening, we are gonna read your book in August in my book club, which I'm really excited about because my, in my coaching program, once a year I go deep, around health and, energy because it doesn't matter how many dreams we have if we don't have great health and if we don't have the energy to make them happen.

[00:43:32] So it's a perfect timing. I'm so excited, I always try to, not everyone who is in the book club is in my coaching program, but I always tie them so we can actually go deeper on subjects. So I'm super excited about that. But for anyone who, hasn't got your book yet, what is one thing they should start with?

[00:43:49] Like, just f- in case they feel overwhelmed with all the things that we've been speaking about, what's one

[00:43:54] simple

[00:43:54] thing that they

[00:43:54] can start with?

[00:43:55] Amantha: I think the, place to start is just starting to bring more awareness to your [00:44:00] energy. Thinking about your energy as physical energy, mental energy, and emotional energy. And just for yourself. You know, give yourself, like, happy face, neutral face, sad face score at the end of the day to go, "How are each of those accounts going?"

[00:44:12] And that will help you understand, okay, which of these accounts need the most attention. So just bringing more awareness to your accounts might be, um, overdrawn, or kind of lacking in, um, funds is a really good place to

[00:44:26] start

[00:44:27] Kristina: Yeah. Love that. Love that. Well, thank you so much for coming back to my podcast. I know you are, have a very, very full schedule, so thank you first for that, but also thank you for, for sharing all your experiences, all the things you're learning, and, yeah,

[00:44:44] so

[00:44:44] grateful. So thank you so

[00:44:46] Amantha: Aw, thank you for having me back on. I always love our chats.

[00:44:49] Kristina: Yes, me too. [00:45:00]

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