dream life dream life podcast female founders fuca guest episode jess armstrong Kristina Karlsson personal growth podcast purpose-led business resilience start before you're ready

#499 - Starting Before You're Ready: How Jess Armstrong Built Fuca Through Chemo

 

Hi there!

What would you build if a hard season showed you exactly what was missing?

In this episode, I sit down with Jess Armstrong, founder of the skincare brand FUCA. Jess was diagnosed with breast cancer at 35, with a five-year-old and a three-year-old at home, and she started creating FUCA while she was still in treatment.

She shares why she couldn't find skincare she felt safe using, or a beauty industry she could see herself in, how many rounds it took to get her first moisturiser right, and how MECCA came on board before she had sold a single product.

We also talk about what helped her through the hardest days: time by the ocean, stepping away from social media, and one simple morning ritual.

What's the thing you've been waiting to feel ready for?

As always, I’d LOVE to hear what resonated most with you - so please share and let’s keep the conversation going in the Dream Life Podcast Facebook Group here.

Have a wonderful week ...and remember, it all starts with a dream.

Enjoy!

PS: If you would like support planning and following through alongside a group of inspiring women, explore Dream Life Coaching: https://www.yourdreamlifestartshere.com/course

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TRANSCRIPT:

Kristina: Well, hello Jess, and a very warm welcome. I'm so excited to have you on my podcast. I want to start with a question that I ask all my guests, and that is, did have a dream as a child, something you wanted to do, have, or become?

Jess: I was always very creative and I wanted to be a jewellery maker, and I actually would make jewellery and I sold a couple to a few shops, I've always wanted to do something creative. I've ha- I have a quite a creative side to me. So yeah, jewellery maker was the big dream.

Kristina: And so when you finished school then, what did you actually do? Because I believe that you went into m- more of a corporate job eventually, yeah

Jess: I finished school and I got quite good marks, I put, my list down. I had commerce as number one, and I had a photography course as nu- as number two. And I remember Mum being like, "Oh, I think you should just do the commerce." you could still do a, a analogue, photography course. Like, imagine if I did that. Film. yeah, so I did commerce and then I found, marketing, which I found a really nice mix between, analytics and a creative human element to it. yeah, I really kind of was like, "Okay, this is something that I could manage to do as a career," right? Like, something that I could, do nine to five that doesn't kind of bore me out of my mind. So I, I was trucking along my degree and I realised that at the end, this was like GFC stuff, I realised that there was going to be no job. Like, I'd have a degree But I wouldn't be able to-- It was really hard to find jobs. So, before I finished, I went and tried to look for an internship and I, went to L'Oréal on St Kilda Road where, where their head office is in Melbourne, and I sat there with my CV, which wasn't very long. But I sat there and waited to speak to a marketing manager, and I kind of pitched, the small credentials that I had and, yeah, and so then my first job was a marketing coordinator at L'Oréal. Yeah.

Kristina: I often encourage young people to actually even just work for free in places where they want to learn, get some connections, and understand how business works, even if they do want to eventually go into their own businesses. I think it's so valuable. And I think marketing is like, you can never go wrong with a marketing degree because marketing is needed whatever you do.

Kristina: So for our listeners, I just want to explain how I never heard of your brand before, and, I got really excited because it's everything that I stand for, no toxic, all the good things. I always look for, for things as little toxic things, as possible. But what I loved even more is that it, you did it out of a, very difficult situation. So I want to talk all about that because I find that, that often as a coach now, I often look for the things that was really hard for people, and then how did they overcome that, and how can they then teach that to other people or share that however, however they want to do it. so for anyone who's listening, I, came across. I love Instagram, how it just feeds you with different things, and sometimes you wonder, "Why did that come up in my feed?" I guess it's just testing if I'm interested in things. And I found this beautiful young lady called Kate who, who is also coming on my podcast, my next guest. And she just got diagnosed with cancer, with breast cancer. oh, it was just so heart-wrenching straightaway I just ordered a Inner Strength journal. So we have done a collaboration with, Breast Cancer Network Australia, BCNA Pink Lady, and, first thing I was like, "I'm just going to, send that to her," just to do my little way of supporting her. And then I started following her, and she did something what I thought was so beautiful. She saw. This was a few years ago, before her breast cancer diagnosis, and she saw this, elderly man, a man that sat on down on his own in a cafe, and she just went speaking, to him, and he lost his wife in cancer, and then they became really good friends. And now they are, like, they often do socials together. They've missed his. And I didn't order a Inner Strength journal for him, but I ordered another journal for him. And then I asked would they both come on my podcast. we haven't recorded it yet, but, we're going to do it next week. And I just love. And then you sent her a package, and then h- I never heard of your brand. I haven't been into MECCA for quite a while. and then I was like, "I want to support, new business that were." You might not be new anymore, but, businesses that are

Jess: we're two years old this month, So, pretty new.

Kristina: yeah. Yeah. And it's, and it's like I feel like every business is kinda new every year because you have to reinvent yourself and change. And so I love supporting, amazing brands that do also really good in the world. So that's kind of, how I got to know of you. And then I said to my daughter, because we're always looking for brands that have very little toxic things in them, so, we're going to go and explore that this weekend. So I'm real excited to come home with some of your products. for our listeners, maybe just tell us a little bit about how you found out you had breast cancer yourself, and how you actually in the middle of all this started a brand. Because it would be very hard, and also it's very inspiring for people who might be going through a tough time in different ways.

Jess: Yes, I was, diagnosed with breast cancer in April of 2023, and I had a five-year-old and a three-year-old at the time. I found my own lump and went to the GP, she did a breast check for me and, it was really under my armpit. It wasn't really in my breast, area. So, there was conversations of, "Oh, it's probably a swollen lymph node. You've been sick recently," and, "No, no, no." And there was no real alarm bells for me. Like, I had maybe some shooting pain, but. and I was a bit tired, but not really anything that was outside of, "Oh, no, this is just working full time and having two young kids,"? Just kind of the- Yeah. that busy cycle of your life. that was a really sliding doors moment, because she was like, "I don't think it's anything, but we'll get it checked out anyway," and sent me off for, an ultrasound. And, pretty much from the ultrasound room, there was a couple of doctors in the room. my alarm bells weren't going off then crazily, which looking back they should have been. But, in my mind, I was a 35-year-old. I was a, a runner. I'd run marathons. and it was just. it's unfathomable until it happens to you, which sounds so, cliche, but you never really know what's around the corner i- in life. and, you don't want to live your life that way anyway, You don't want to live your life thinking that something negative or bad's going to happen to you. But, I just was like, "I'm not s- the statistic. It's just not that." but yeah, what I had actually found was a, the secondary tumour. the primary was right under my nipple, and the secondary was pretty much nearly out of my breast tissue. So, luckily, I was still considered a stage II because it hadn't left my breast tissue, but they were like it, it was super, super close. So, within 10 days after being diagnosed, I was in chemo. And it just moves so quickly. And within those 10 days you have, the scans and the blood tests. they're, they're seeing whether it's in the rest of your body. they're like, "We know it's in your breast. It could be somewhere else." So, you're going to bed every night just playing different movie scenarios out in your head,? Like, "Am I going to see my daughter get married, or is this all going to be over by Christmas?" that week when you don't know is horrific. It is so cruel. It's such a cruel week. And then, by the time you've got a plan, then I think our brain can cope better. It's like, "Okay, we've got a plan. It's. We've got a to-do list." And I'm a very task orientated person, so once I had the plan with, my medical team, I was determined. But, everyone was like, "You're young, you'll be fine." But f- it is so tough. Like chemo is, it comes from, mustard gas from World War II. you're literally poisoning your whole body to get rid of a tumour. And, that is the point of it. It c- has to go through every cell, to kind of disrupt the bad ones, but it also takes out all, all the good ones too. and all of your organs suffer from it. And, our skin is our largest living organ, and it's the only one that we can see from the outside. So obviously it varies differently, but 80% of people going through chemo really struggle with their skin, not just during active treatment, but after as well because of, has long-lasting effects. but also, I'm on medication that I'll be on till I'm, 50, maybe later, that severely dries out my skin and has other side effects, as all medications do. so The skin and the hair for me were very visible signs. I had other things that were going on in my body, but the visible, the really visible things, were my skin and my hair. And to your medical team who are trying to save your life, they're just superficial things, right? yep, your hair's going to go, but it'll grow back. but it is super hard for, for women in particular when, We don't realise how much of id- identity is tied to our looks and our femininity. and when you are bald and that you need to drop your daughter off at kinder, and your skin is horrific and you're struggling with your own, mental health and, confidence, it just all compounds just so many things, get stripped away when you're going through a, a cancer diagnosis, and that real lack of control and. I love skincare. I've wo- I've, I worked, my first job was at L'Oréal, and I've always worked somewhat in, in beauty, but, I, for the first time in my life, I felt like I didn't belong in the beauty industry, and I felt like I was ostracized for having cancer, and unfortunately, it's not a minority thing. one in eight Australian women will have breast cancer. It's, it's crazy. one in two Australians will have cancer. and unfortunately, our hectic lifestyles and high toxic age that we live in, we don't have a cure for cancer yet. and, the statistics aren't getting better because we shop for convenience now, and companies are really savvy at creating synthetic ingredients and synthetic preservatives that we're not meant to have on our skin and in our bodies. so yeah, that, that was kind of the journey towards feeling really frustrated and feeling yeah, I was angry obviously. I was angry at what was happening, but, I feel like maybe it was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. I went to my oncologist and said, " What, skincare products can I use? Like, o- I can't use anything that I'm c- I've currently got in my cupboard. Like, they're all stinging and burning." And the answer really is, "Oh, just put some Sorbolene on it," and that's kind of all the advice. And, skincare to me, it is an act of self-care, and it's a really nice end-of-day ritual. it is skin health. It's looking after the health of your skin. I just wasn't satisfied with that answer. and I really, looked around at the industry and thought, "There's a real gap here. No one is paying attention to us." and I really liked the idea of the beauty industry was over here and cancer was over here. Really liked the idea of how do I merge these together, and, find a, a p- a position that people like me could f- could see themselves in a brand and see themselves in the beauty industry. I really liked that idea of pushing the boundary and, the brand name FUCA, it stands for F You Cancer. I really wanted the word cancer, it had to be in the brand because the brand was born out of personal struggle, but we shouldn't be ashamed of it. And maybe, like, we are the first, I'm a millennial, but we're kind of the first generation that aren't as ashamed of it. it is, I will never know why it h- why it happened or, if it was lifestyle. It's not hereditary. I've done lots of, testing about that. But, we are the generation that sharing causes, creates healing. whereas I feel like a lot of older generations, it was considered, cancer's so taboo. And, I had older women that had gone through cancer say to me, "Oh, you don't have to tell anyone." I was like, "Don't have to tell anyone?" Don't have to tell anyone? that, that kind of. It's a y- there's a crazy. I could write a whole book on the funny things that people say when you have cancer. You should write a book, by the oh, gosh, there's some, there's some doozies. But yeah, I re- so yeah, I really wanted the word cancer in the brand, and it had to be bold, and I didn't want it. It's an organic skincare brand, but I didn't want it to be white and look like it was, came out of a clinical lab. I didn't want it to look like it came out of a hospital, because when you're sitting in chemo day after day, it is the most drab place you can ever be. There's no colour. It's stark. the lighting is terrible. So FUCA is the brand that I needed and I wanted during that treatment and, and I, I started creating it when I was still in treatment. it took a number of years and because I wasn't well, I was real on this cyclical motion of, there'd be days where I couldn't even, get off the couch, so it's not like I was working on a brand proposition or a business plan. But when I did wake up and, you wake up day after day as you get further away from your chemo, and yourself coming back, you can feel, you can feel the drugs kind of, processing out, and then eventually you wake up and you're like, "Oh, I'm back. I'm feeling good." And those moments of, "Oh my God, I'm feeling good," it was like a rush of adrenaline to be like, I've only got a couple of days, a four, maybe four days that I can go for a run, play with my kids, and do things that give me joy. And I think, that maybe is the somewhat. And I'm only starting to look at the silver linings now of what cancer has, done to me. It's very hard to do that at the start. when your health is taken away, you realise that that's when it's given back to you, you realise, wow, that's really all we've got in life.? That and your family, they're the two things. That's all you've got because without that, you can't do anything. You can't do anything you enjoy. and so, I love the next generation, for coming through. They are so obsessed with wellness, and they're so much more educated. they're drinking less. they're sleeping better. They're going to run clubs, and I'm just like, "Go, you guys." Like, they will be so much healthier for it, because these cumulative habits are cumulative. what's in your pantry, what's in your laundry, what's in your bathroom, the chemical load adds up.

Kristina: Tell us the day where you were like, "Actually, I'm going to create a brand." Because, what I love about, like, I love being a, person who appreciate designs. I l- when I saw the colours, I lo- I love everything and, and I can't wait to use it as well. I also love not having anything toxic, and it's funny because, my daughter, she's in that teenage years now where she's using more toxic, and then she, she was in the early days when I was a bit more in control. And when I go into her room sometimes I'm like, oh, I sneeze, and I'm like, "Oh, I'm not sure about that." but, I am curious, how did you come up with the idea and obviously for the need, but, it's one thing to think about it, and especially when you're unwell where there are so many other priorities perhaps, and also having young kids. Like, the combination is not the easiest combination to, start a business. So I'm curious how you actually did that.

Jess: I couldn't s- find anything. Like, there was. It wasn't like I found a brand and I was like, "Oh, I c- I could do this better." There was nothing. you walk down the, the f- the, the aisles at the pharmacy or, or the supermarket and, it's cheap product. Of course they're going to be filling it with cheap ingredients. I really created it for me, because I was stuck. Yeah, I, I was like, "I don't feel safe." I lost a lot of trust and especially coming from the other side. I understand that sometimes companies can have a good, vision of what they want to create, but, at the end of the day, it's the finance team who are passing, the products, and they're like, "Guys, it's not going to meet the cost. Go back. Go back. Go back." And that's when, even if there's good intentions there, that's when, the nasty ingredients come in. Because, these big companies, it- they're, they're run by the finance team pretty much. I've worked in product development. You pa- you can't pass, you can't just launch a product without finance, approving it. yeah, for me, I was like, "I can do this so much better with so much more integrity." And I, I was really surprised by how little fragrance-free brands, skincare brands there are. I love fragrance. I never spray it on my skin anymore, only on my clothes. But f- in skincare, it's, it, it gives no benefit to the skin. It's only there to either mask a chemical smell or for sensory benefit. There is no benefit for your skin to have fragrance in your skincare. And fragrance is kind of a very unknown area. it's considered a brand's intellectual property right, their fragrance, combination, their fragrance mix, so they don't have to disclose what that is on pack. So that little word "fragrance," you look at the back of pack, you think, "Oh, that's not too bad." That tiny word "fragrance" could have a list of 50 ingredients behind it, and they don't have to list that. And we, we won't, we, we don't know what, what's in that. So, the, the fact that there was no, products for me that, like, I couldn't find a fully fragrance-free brand, which I was really as- astound about. And then the representation. There was no representation of women, shaved heads, losing hair. and for me, I was like, "That is so important." Because as a woman who- can't see themselves in this, in the beauty industry, which is so aspirational, and I get it, why it is. But I was like, "That's just not good enough." it really was a place of anger. But, yeah, in terms of how, I kind of spoke with a number of different manufacturers, and I knew that the manufacturing part Was going to be hard because I was, y- y- if you go to a manufacturer and say, "Hey, I want to start a k- skincare business." They'll say, "Okay, great. Do you want a moisturiser and a cleanser or blah, blah, blah?" Okay. We've got some of those formulations. We'll send you them."? Yeah. They- and they're called off-the-shelf formulas or, or they're private label formulas. And they'll try and sell those to you because they've already created them. They might be using them for other brands and, so, when they're buying raw materials, it's great for them if they've got two exact same formulations and, and things like that. But what I was asking was this whole list of 12 ingredients and, and there's kind of more now that I spec in, not to have. And, things like pegs and silicons. That is what is, is kind of the shortcut way to make a moisturiser have that really slippy feeling and go in really well. But, silicons actually block your pores. So lo- further down the track that's not great for sensitive skin sufferers. and then you've got things like pegs that are kind of potential hormone disruptors. So and I was a no one as well. I had, experience in the industry, but I was a no-name brand and the brand doesn't, didn't exist. So I spoke to maybe three or four different manufacturers and, two of them said, "No." Like, "You're kind of too hard basket." and then two of them I did do sampling from, but they had to build it from the, from the ground up. And I got to maybe two or three rounds with both of them, and every round costs about $900. It depends. Depends on the manufacturer. But, one round and they give you a little sample. I was like, "If I'm not going to use it on myself, then I'm not going to do it." Right? Yeah. and then, the one, the manufacturer that I'm with, with now, he's a natural cosmetic chemist. And even him, his background was in background stuff. He was like, "Okay, you're really kind of pushing the boundaries here." And we were flying in ingredients from overseas in the EU because they're a lot more, they're much further ahead than we are with ingredient integrity and rules. and he was like, "Look, this." And I laugh now, but we're, we're, we're very close, but the start was quite rocky. we went through 23 rounds for our first moisturiser, and he could've turned around and charged me a 20 grand fee, fee for that. This, I, I dropped the other one because I knew that wasn't going to work. But he didn't because he believed in what I was, the vision and what I was trying to- achieve. And I didn't have MECCA then. I didn't even have a online store. but he is just a good person, and he believed in, what I was trying to achieve and create. And yeah, if I didn't find that right partnership, then I wouldn't have proceeded forward. So yeah, finding tho- those right partnerships in business that you can see yourself working with for, values very aligned as well personally, not just professionally, is really, really important. So yeah, I know, I know FUCA wouldn't be here if, if, if I didn't find that right partnership now.

Kristina: Yeah, I love hearing the hard parts because that's often the case when you find manufacturers, because if you are very specific, I was exactly the same in a very different area obviously back in the day where they all, like, thought I was too hard on the quality, and I just rejected things. And, and I, I even had one of the manufacturers that I was. 'Cause I used to drive to my manufacturer when we were manufacturing in Melbourne. And every Friday he was like, "Oh." And he took me aside one day and he said, "I'm so sick of you coming here every Friday to, to complain." I'm like, "We need to get it right, and then once it's right, I'm not going to complain anymore." But it's, it's so important to have that right, partnership, and also someone who believes in you that understands that it's just so, so, so important. and I actually love a story like this, and I think this is why I've just felt straight away, I was like, "I just want to support you," because, because y- it came from something you needed. And I think there's nothing more important from a founder that actually creates something that they would use themself and they need themselves. Because otherwise, if you do it just for money and you see a bit of it, because there's lots of things that we could do. you could buy a petrol station and make a lot of money, like, it- but it's wouldn't be as exciting unless you make that, a specific thing that you need. Like, you having a, a need and something you're passionate about is, is what keeps a business going, I think. Because in the end of the day, once you start making enough money to support your family and do all the things that you want to do, it's about doing something you love. and, as you said earlier, it's not going to go away, and it's just probably going to be more needed. And the more awareness that you get, hence wanting to, to come on our platform in case we can help you with some of your customers, it's just going to get better. But not only have you got amazing ingredients, you also have a beautiful packaging. So tell me about that.

Jess: because I have worked in marketing, I had contacts and I knew who I wanted to design the packaging, but I also had a very strong vision, of, the colours. I, I really wanted the pink to be in there for, for a nod to, breast cancer and, and, we are the official skincare partner of Breast Cancer Network Australia, and every-- a percentage of every sale goes towards, them. Doesn't matter whether you buy it from MECCA or whether you buy it, online. it just needed to be bold and loud, and I didn't want it to fit in with the other sensitive skin brands. I didn't want it to be, subdued and medicinal looking for those nods to organic, it usually is the whites and the greens or the, the f- kind of that woody look. And I was like, "It's absolutely not." it kind of represents that we're not going to hide, and you're not going to exclude us. and again, like when I had my mastectomy, I had a, two mastectomies at two different times on two different boobs. And the first time I-- FUCA wasn't around, but the second time it was, and I took FUCA into the hospital with me, it was sitting there looking at it in the bathroom at, at the, in this disgusting hos-hospital bathroom. And I was like, "Yeah, that's ex- that's exactly the vision that I had." it's this beautifully aesthetic, bold packaging that someone can go and do a beautiful skincare routine after a day of being in the hospital in a place you don't want to be. And it just r- it, yeah, it represents, hope. It represents that someone's looking after you. you don't have to go and trawl through the ingredients because after a ca-cancer diagnosis, you literally nitpick every aspect of your life. food is obviously a big one. so there's, there's lots of kind of tearing apart and, really having a go at yourself and your past habits. there's self-blame, and you see what you're putting your family through. Like, there's a lot of guilt there as well. and I just wanted FUCA to be a brand that people could just be like, "Okay, I trust this."? "Jess has done the work for me," and the results are just amazing, the f- the feedback that we get. And, it's not just for women that are going through treatment. they're kind of not even really our core customer. of course, they're our core customer, and whenever I design an, product, I always think of her and think of me back in that state. But, it's really evolved into anyone who is looking for a low-tox skincare range, anyone with eczema or rosacea or, breastfeeding, pregnancy. if you're going I- through IVF, they tell you not to wear fragrance.

Kristina: I came across an organic skincare brand, for my daughter when y- you, it became, when they were like really early because of TikTok, became a big skincare craziness. And, some of our daughter's friends were using stuff that, it's like I wouldn't use, in terms of the harshness. And I was like, "No." So I found something, but I. So as soon as I saw your brand, I said, "Tiffany, this is a really great brand to test for you that wants low tox but still wants to use all the, all the things," and especially when it's such a beautiful packaging, because that's

Jess: Yeah, and you can, and you can go and buy it at MECCA,? And I feel like that's, a part of it too. The, the experience of going in there and feel, it, it's make, it makes you feel like you're still part of the beauty industry as well. And that, that is, that's really important to me

Kristina: Yeah. for someone who just starts out a brand and, you're doing it all while you're also unwell, so that's like a, a, a big challenge in its own. And then of course, getting customers and getting, getting the awareness out. So I was. The first thing that I thought of when I saw it on Kate's, I was like, "I wonder if, this is a great brand for MECCA." And then I realised you were already in MECCA, just because I often. I'm an entrepreneur, so I think about stuff like that. and then I was so excited to see you were part of, MECCA, and obviously I, I know Jo and I love what she's created, because I've been part of her journey for a very long time, and seeing what they have achieved is, is remarkable. so for someone who's just starting out, to go into MECCA would have been a challenge in terms of they would have people knocking on their door every day. So tell us a little bit about that, because I think this is really inspiring for people who might be sitting with an idea and thinking, you need to have X amount of sales or X amount of, publicity before you do.

Jess: Oh, yeah. That's such a great question and, even when I tell this story back of, of how MECCA got on board, I was in marketing all my life. I know my story is very unique because we had signed a contract with MECCA before I had sold one product

Kristina: Yeah. Wow.

Jess: in terms of, h- how I kind of got to see them, I had a friend that worked there and l- their head office is in Melbourne, I had samples and I was testing the product with a test group. So it was very early days and, there was no way that I would consider even myself pitching to a retailer before I had, finished, with the packaging all done. Because I, I- in my past jobs I'd pitched to Coles, I'd pitched to Woolies, I'd pitched to Priceline, pitched to Chemist Warehouse. Once I got the meeting, I kind of knew what it would take to, what they wanted to see in the meeting, but there was no way that I thought they wanted to talk to me before it had even launched. But, yes, being in marketing and being in the beauty industry, I knew people in MECCA and kind of told them, what I was working on, and they were like, "this is i- incredible, Jess." and they said, "Look, I'll just mention it to someone and, when you, when you've launched come back and, just tell us how you're doing and how the sales are doing online." And I was like, "Yeah, great plan." And then a couple of weeks later, I went for a walk with that girlfriend again. She was like, "Hey, they want you to come in and have a chat with them." And I was like, "Whoa." I've read something, if you can't laugh at your first pitch deck, then you've kind of, you, you, then then you've worked too hard. Because, and it's just, I could have said, "No, no, no, we'll wait," but. And I knew I wasn't ready, but I had product. It, the design hat wasn't finished, but I had a product that we were testing, so I had samples in that meeting. And I just really talked them through the gap, the vision, and the story. And I feel like this kind of emergence of founder stories is. I can see why consumers love it, because from, working in a corporate, lots of corporate businesses, by the time the business gets to that stage, it's kind of lost the core focus of the customer a bit. so if you're buying from a founder brand, you're probably getting really good bang for your buck. You're probably getting ingredients and products that are totally over-specced, which I know mine are. you're getting, so much more love and care than, these big corporations and, your money's not going overseas. so I, I can see why founders are doing so well is because at, at the, especially at the very start, they are really delivering on the consumer need. before it gets too big and all the money comes in and, and someone's just looking at the bottom line. At the start, that core consumer is all that they care about, and the products are absolutely all designed, for that end consumer in mind. And yeah, so they said, they said, "We'll test the product." They test product for four months. So, I was tinkering away and I hadn't heard from them, and I just thought, "Oh yeah, that's it. I might go back in a year when I've got some sales data." and then a meeting popped up in my inbox and, they, they told me 800 brands pitch to them a year. 800 pitch to them a year. so a meeting pop- popped up in my inbox and I thought, it was just kind of a regroup and maybe give me some feedback and direct me in a new direction for the products. But yeah, they went in there and they were like, "We're blown away with how the products perform." They're like, "We know we don't have anything like it," and, "Yeah, we would love to be your retail partner." So it, it was, it was, it was unworldly and yeah, it was unworldly in the sense that that is not usually how it goes. MECCA is very unique in, in that sense,. I've never worked with a retail partner like MECCA. They truly want you to succeed. I'm, I'm very used to lots of other Australian retailers who just go for the jugular Yeah, it, it's very hard. It's very hard, to get into certain retailers in Australia. but they were on board and I think they're very much female empowerment, and I think just the female founder and, supporting women with breast cancer and the representation in the beauty industry. they are very aware of the standards that are put on women worldwide because of the beauty industry. And yeah, they, they are real movers and shakers in, in trying to push wellness and trying to forge, a better life for Australian women. And they do do a lot behind the scenes that people don't see with Empower. they really do walk the walk. and yeah, I was just so thrilled. Like, we couldn't have found a better, better partner, obviously. They're just. Yeah.

Kristina: Yeah, it's so amazing. It's, they do so many amazing things and, and it's such a great partner for you to be part of because then also you have that network of support and help if you ever need to, so that's so great to hear. So for people who are listening who are in a bit of a state in terms of it might not be breast cancer, it might be something that is just difficult, what kind of lessons can you share with them to kind of get back on that track in terms of just feeling a little bit more of a hope and have something to look forward to? It might not be starting your own brand, but it might be something that, that helped you, on your journey.

Jess: when everything's stripped back and all the social commitments, are gone, and you're purely just looking after your health and just day to day, I feel like getting back to nature and just walking outside, just seeing the wonder of the, of the world. Whether it's going down, driving to the ocean and just sitting there, and just looking at the water. I feel like we can learn a lot just from nature and watching nature and, and how it survives as well,. How it regenerates itself, how it makes us feel, how it makes us feel small is a really great thing. you can stand and look around, and all that beauty, whatever it is, that feeling of feeling small within nature is sometimes really refreshing. and yeah, that's something that really helped me. It's super basic, but after all of my chemo sessions, I would just drive. It was quite near, the ocean. I would just drive and sit at the beach, and just sit there.

Kristina: Yeah

Jess: And I think, getting off social media was a big one for me too. I found it really hard to even socialise. even going out for dinner with my best girlfriends was difficult because I was on a totally different trajectory at that point in my life than they were, and I couldn't keep up in social situations, and the comparisonitis on social media is just torture.

Kristina: Yeah

Jess: so I feel like, having a detox break, is really important if you're in that state. And, I found this really great device actually. It's called a Brick, and it's the first thing that has actually got me off my phone. And I, and for a while I've used the excuse that, oh, work's on my phone. But, this Brick is the first thing that has got me off, my phone, and the way that it has changed my mental health, and I'm in a really good place now. But whoa, it's powerful. It's so powerful, and it can be so, harmful as well. So yeah, na- nature and digital detox is, are

Kristina: Yeah. I love, love both of them. we often talk about it here at home. It's like because all of us here are entrepreneurs, and, it's so easy to justify it, and I often just feel so empty after. 'Cause sometimes it's nice to actually have a night on the couch and be like, "Okay, I'm just going to check out some new thing." Yeah, Yeah, But then after you always feel like, "Oh, I wish I did something else," and I have a big passion for reading and, you definitely read less when you, phone is competing. So I have specific rules that I don't always follow, that's for sure. But I try to. But the other more. Like, every morning I go for a walk. So I'm. So I lived in Melbourne for a long time, and just moved to Sydney last, or almost two years ago, and, I always wanted to because I, I, love a little bit of warmer weather that, because I'm a morning person. And, and now I live very close to water here, and every morning I, I walk

Jess: She just love it.

Kristina: oh. And this morning I was standing, ah. It's just the best. And nature, I, I go for walks, and I go in silence, and And this morning I was standing outside, and I, because it was my dream to live in Sydney for so long, I kind of pinch myself every morning. I'm like, "Here I am actually living." 'Cause I used to go to Sydney so much, and then I used to go back and I was like, "Oh, it's just a little bit warmer in the morning," and, coming from Sweden, that's kind of all I wanted

Jess: Oh, it's the dream, isn't it? And it's just so, it's so beautiful, Sydney. We were, we were there a couple weeks ago. My husband did the Sydney Marathon. And we stayed in Manly and caught the ferry over.

Kristina: I live in Manly.

Jess: It's so stunning with the harbour and the, all the houses going up and the, and like, it's just. I was gobsmacked. It was so beautiful.

Kristina: and that's how I feel. Like I, so I do, I do a lot of travelling because I speak a lot now, and I take the, ferry over to, Circular Quay, and then the train to the p- and I'm just like, "I cannot believe I'm living this." And before I lived here, I used to go up here a lot, and my best friend, she lives here, and I was like, "I could actually have this every day." Anyway, so I, my fa- I worked on this dream for probably 20 years, and I made it happen a couple years ago, so now I'm just like, I'm even more in enjoyment. Yeah, so no, I absolutely love it. I could speak to you forever, but I'm very conscious of your time. But I just wanted to, to ask a couple more questions. one, have you got a specific morning ritual that really helps you setting you up for, for the day?

Jess: I, there's one thing that I have started making for myself, and I have like this little list on my phone that's like my, my healthy habits. 'Cause, it's hard to drink all the water and do the steps, like, but there is this one juice that, like, if I make it, and I kind of make it for a couple of days and I put it in the fridge, if I ha- That's the first thing I have when I wake up in the morning. it's a really, like, mental note for me to be like, "I'm looking after myself." And yeah, it's, it's, it's very simple. It's just beetroot, ginger, lemon, and watermelon. And I, like, blitz it up in my Thermo. You don't need a juicer, like, because you don't want to take the, the pulp out of it. and I just blitz that up, and I put it in, like, bottles for the next couple of days. And, and for me, like, especially someone who is a, a c- a cancer survivor, there's, there's, there's almost a bit of pressure to be, Well, of course, we don't want reoccurrence, so that's always in your back of your mind. But there is that pressure to be on top of your health, if I didn't have cancer, I'm, I'm 40 next year, there's no way I'd ha- I'd be thinking about, all the things that I need to do to live till 80, and that's the reality of it. it's, what do I, what can I do today that makes me get to 80 years old, and I can meet my grandkids? Like- Yeah. and, it, it's brutal, but it's true. and yeah, that's, that's one thing for me. Once I've, like, had that, Yeah, it's just like one thing, I feel like I'm on a good path.

Kristina: And the other one is, have you got a favourite book? A book that, a nonfiction book ideally, but it could be a fiction book as well, that had a big impact on you or that you really got something out of? It could be a business book, could be a, could be anything really

Jess: Yeah, there was one I read, it is called, I'm just going to quickly Google it. It's called, like, how to times, it's like times 10 your,

Kristina: Or 10X your... Yeah, actually, I have it under my computer. Let me just get it. 10X is easier than 2X.

Jess: Yeah. 10X is easier than 2X. And I was, recommended that by a girlfriend of mine who started Health Lab, this amazing, it's in the supermarkets, protein balls and la, la, la. And yes, and she said, "Read this book." Like, it literally changed my thinking. And I feel like as women in business sometimes we, we are a bit reserved and we're not kind of, we don't take as bigger risks. We're not as bullish. and so for that, that book for me was a really great book to be like, yeah, what is the limit? am I limiting my own, kind of vision of what success is? And I think after that book, I was really like, wow, like there is no limit. Like this could be global, that book for me was a really good one to just change my thinking and, and not limit yourself.

Kristina: I have a book club for business actually, because, when I started my first business, kikki.K, I had no idea about business, so I almost lear- learned everything from books or mentors and then by doing it. and, I, I often get a lot of questions because I do a lot of speaking in front of small business owners, and I. So I have my top 10, and this one's definitely part of it. And then I s- I thought I started. I think it was last year I started a small business book club. I also have a personal growth. Yeah, Yeah, so you should, you should join us. I'll send you the link. yeah, but it's really, it's really great to read one book a month, and then not just read it, but actually implement it. And another one that I highly recommend if you haven't read it, but I'm sure you, you might have, is Building a StoryBrand, by Donald Miller. it just helps you simplify your message. because sometimes ent- as entrepreneurs and business owners, we, we

Jess: Wanna do it all.

Kristina: we do too many things and I'm currently working with a, speaking coach because one of my, one of my dreams is to become a, like a world-class speaker. I speak a lot already, but I want to become a world-class speaker. And I love a challenge, so I like to work with coaches. But anyway, he's like, "Oh my gosh, slow down. You have so many. You, you want. Like, we need to focus on this." And I'm like, "Right, okay." I think we need to have those kind of, personalities to drive a business, otherwise it becomes. If you just had to stay in one lane, we need to do that to kind of build a business, but we also need to have a little bit of, inspiration outside of our lane, in

Jess: Absolutely. And we need to be dreamers too, right?

Kristina: Absolutely, for sure. And that's why 10X is a brilliant book. But yeah, I'll send you my top 10 list, of books. And for anyone, And for anyone, who's listening, I'll link to it as well. It's a free service that I have on my website for people who wants to read some more books. Anyway, I want to finish this incredible conversation with one question. What kind of advice would you give to yourself, say, your late teens to your early 20s?

Jess: I always have put a lot of pressure on myself in a sense that I kind of wanted to live an extraordinary life. and I guess no one wants to live an ordinary life, right? But I've always, kind of put pressure on myself to push the boundaries and, and try and live the best life that you can live. and I would say to her, just keep doing what you're doing because, yeah, it will all work out. I was a very confident 20-year-old. I would definitely say I was confident, I was, there was a worry wart of, what I was going to do and how I was going to be a mum and also, like, have a career and, I think just stay the course. And also p- I think patience, like I used to rush a lot of things. I think I've learnt that, like time does heal a lot of stuff, and you do make the right decisions if you just take a little bit more time. and I know that is hard, especially, for someone in their 20s. But, yeah, just take the time, and sometimes the right, decision presents itself. it's almost like the universe is. Not that it's going to make it for you, but yeah,

Kristina: helps you along the way.

Jess: helps you along the way. Yeah. Sometimes some decisions are made for you

Kristina: Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, Jess, this has been so inspiring. Thank you so much for taking the time. We appreciate it. And, for anyone listening, I will be linking obviously to Jess' products. Love to hear if you're testing them. And, Jess, thank you so much for taking your time in your, your very full life, to come on the podcast.

Jess: I loved our chat. Thank you.

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