briony benjamin dream life dream life podcast guest episode hard days joy Kristina Karlsson personal growth pick me up podcast resilience self-care

#503 - Pick Me Up: Doses of Comfort and Joy to Help You Feel Better Today, with Briony Benjamin


Hi there!

Is life feeling a little heavy right now?

Maybe you're tired or stretched, or you're having one of those flat days or weeks. If so, this episode is for you, and it's one to come back to whenever you need a little pick-me-up.

In this episode, I'm joined by my dear friend Briony Benjamin. At 31, Briony was diagnosed with stage four blood cancer, then spent years finding her way back from chronic fatigue. Her beautiful new book, Pick Me Up, is full of tiny, doable ways to feel a little bit better, one small step at a time.

We talk about the glass of muddy water and why adding more good stuff in works better than scrubbing out the bad, how joy and sadness can live side by side, the pick-me-up pack Briony keeps ready for flat days, and what joy looked like for her on chemo days. She also shares the simple joy of learning people's names, and why she now listens to her seven-year-old self.

Who in your life could do with a little pick-me-up right now?

As always, I'd LOVE to hear what resonated most with you - so please share and let's keep the conversation going in the Dream Life Podcast Facebook Group here.

Have a wonderful week ...and remember, it all starts with a dream.

Enjoy!

PS: If you would like support turning your dreams into action alongside a group of inspiring women, explore Dream Life Coaching: https://www.yourdreamlifestartshere.com/course

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TRANSCRIPT:

Kristina: Hi there, and welcome back to Your Dream Life podcast. I'm Kristina Karlsson, and I'm really excited to be here today. If life is feeling a little heavy right now, maybe you're tired or stretched, or you're having one of those flat days or weeks.

If so, this episode is for you. And of course, we all have days or weeks, and sometimes even month and years like that, so this is an episode to come back to when you feel like you need a little bit of a pick-me-up. My guest today is my dear friend, Briony Benjamin. At age 31, Briony was diagnosed with stage four blood cancer and then spent years finding her way back from chronic fatigue She first came on my podcast after her book, Life is Tough, But So Are You, and we have been friends ever since. Her beautiful new book is called Pick Me Up. It's a beautiful book, like the illustration design, the colours, just stunning. And it's full of tiny, doable ways to feel a little bit better, one small step at a time.

Briony is a beautiful human. She is warm, funny, and so real about the hard days. I know you'll come away feeling lighter, so let's dive right in

hello Briony. I am so excited to have you back. Welcome

Briony: thank you. I know, and when we first met on the podcast, we didn't really know each other and, and as a result of that podcast, we have become really good friends. So I'm so grateful, to you for having a podcast 'cause we got to know each other that way, and now, we see a lot of each other, which is, the best

Kristina: Absolutely. And you know, I often say this to people who have a dream to start a podcast, to start it as quick as possible, not to overthink it, because the people you get to meet is just unbelievable. and as you may know, I have now done 500 episodes, and when I look back, I had some reflection and, it's all the people, the guests who come on here, people like you, but also the people who listen because I hear - I meet people from all over and, it's so nice when you actually meet people through, through having a podcast.

So yes, and, you have just started a new podcast. You wanna just share that before we get into everything?

Briony: Yeah. So I've always wanted to podcast and taking your advice of just start. But Molly, my sister, and I, who you know very well as well now, we started a sister podcast this year. It's called Gotta Go, because we, between us, we have three babies under the age of three, and, it's a hectic phase of life, but we're very grateful to be in this phase of life.

And so it's two sisters catching up on everything in their world and the world before we gotta go and deal with a nappy or a crying child or something like that

Kristina: I love that. I love that. And, Molly has been on our podcast as well, so for anyone who wants to go back, I'll link to everything that we talk about today as well. So, I am really excited to first start, I always ask, you know, did you have a dream as a child? I did that last time, so I'm gonna ask you, is there one dream that you are currently either working on...

I know that you are in a very, hectic stage of your life having two very young kids. But is there something that you are either working on in a, as a, a big dream or something that once you get your a little bit of time back that you would like to pursue?

Briony: Yeah, it's an interesting phase of life. I have two beautiful boys. I call them my joy boys. two boys under the age of three. So it is a busy, hectic time, and I love that you've really helped me a lot during this phase, Kiki, where I've had all these big goals and I, you know, want to achieve all these things.

And you've been a really lovely balance of like, yeah, have those dreams and want to do great things in the world, but also this is a really precious time of your life,

Kristina: Yeah

Briony: and be present to this with your babies. So I find it's an interesting time at the moment because while I still have all these ambitions, you know, big dream to be a New York Times bestselling author one day.

but I've had to just find that balance of not being too impatient right now so that I can enjoy this season and know that there's time for the other things to come. So yeah, I would say there, there's dreams like that. But, you know, I was fortunate enough to go to your 101 Dreaming session before - well before I knew you and before we were friends, and I sat in the audience as a fan writing down 101 dreams, and I go back to that book all the time.

And it was such a lovely experiment that you allowed us to do because it opened up your mind just to so many possibilities, you know, rather than just having one or two goals of your life. And so I always put really, fun goals on my list every year now. Like this year I had get chickens and learn how to make kombucha.

But two, two things that I've done, you know, they were just more like fun life things that I wanted to do and achieve this year. so I've ticked those off. They don't feel momentous, but they were really nurturing and nourishing fun things to have achieved. But yeah, a lot of dreams I think at the moment just kind of just on pause or just, you know, allowing myself the space to not be having to try and do all the things right now.

Kristina: So I love that you think that you are, having a small dream. So yeah, maybe chickens... I don't think chickens is small 'cause that's a big decision to take and learning how to do kombucha.

But you also happen to, publish a book, which is, definitely not small. So let's talk about your book first. Can I just say, and can can you please hold it up? Because I don't have a physical copy yet. I can't wait to go on and pre-order it. It's so beautiful. Not just the cover, but you can't just judge it on the cover.

It's actually as beautiful on the inside, if not even more. I just - I absolutely loved,

Briony: flowers on the inside page. Lots of flowers in this book, Kiki. I say it's basically a bunch of flowers in book form, you know? And,

Kristina: Yeah. It's so beautifully done. the designer, illustrator, she needs a big shout-out. She's really beautiful. But, I am curious, why did you decide to write this book?

Briony: This book has really been nagging at me for a few years, and it's an idea I had a number of years ago. Actually, I'm gonna fully credit Molly, my sister, with this idea because we were living together at the time. I had finished, for those who don't know my story, I went through a blood cancer nine years ago, so I had to do chemo.

I lost my hair. You know, it has huge impacts on your health. And as a result of that, I had really bad chronic fatigue. And Molly and I were living together at that time, and it was just a really demoralising and hopeless season of my life where everything felt really hard. It felt like a real slog.

For anyone who's listening that's, dealt with a chronic health condition or chronic fatigue, you know how it can just be so demoralising. It's physically really challenging, but emotionally it is so challenging. And I remember Molly saying to me, she'd just moved back from London, so she was feeling really, you know, flat.

We didn't, you know, both of us were single. We were wanting to meet people, but, you know, navigating the Sydney hellscape of dating. And I remember Molly just saying, "We need a book for this season." Because I think at that point I'd sort of written "Life Is Tough But So Are You," my first book, which was how, but how do you deal with life when the worst thing happens?

You know, be it a breakup or a cancer diagnosis or something like that. But this was more about what comes next. And for me, it was the aftermath that was so much harder emotionally in many ways than the actual cancer because there was no defined endpoint, there was no guidebook, and it just felt like life was one big slog.

And I think with any kind of chronic condition, there is the fear that life will never feel good again, or maybe this is your new normal now. So that's where this book was born and, I started just jotting down ideas through, 'cause I had to learn so much getting through all that and what were the things that actually really helped, be they practical, be they mindset ideas, be they just physical things you could go and do.

And so all the things that I learned on that journey back to myself, that long slow crawl that actually shifted the needle and helped, I've poured into this book.

Kristina: Yeah. It's so fantastic because I think this book is more needed than ever because we are going through so many changes. I probably don't have to even mention all the changes we're going through, and a lot of people are doing it tough. So I've been doing a lot of speaking for, at small business events or council events and, chamber of commerce events, a lot of small business owner.

But I know that this extends way beyond, entrepreneurs and business owners, that things are really tough right now. So I think it's very timely, for not just people who are going through a health challenge, and there's plenty of those as well. It's also really great for anyone who is going through the business challenges or even getting, roles are changing so rapidly with AI.

There's so many changes. So I just want you to go through, Briony, your favourites part. So I, I might just start to get it started because there's so many things that I could talk about, I might prompt a couple, but, one thing that I think it will be really nice...

Actually, let's t- let's talk first about the, how a glass of water changed, and I think you might have mentioned this on our last episode. I can't quite remember because we speak so much that I don't know what went on the podcast or what didn't. But I think this one is such a good one to start this conversation, and then we can go through some of the tips that are in the book.

And then obvious- of course, we're gonna encourage everyone to get a copy for themselves, but also a copy for someone who might need it right now. And I can think of a few people that I'm gonna pre-order for because, they're going through a really challenging time. So let's start with the water story.

Briony: Yeah. So this story, it's just an analogy that I love and really helps me when I am feeling a bit flat or down and out, is that there is so much that is just outside of our control. But the thing that we can control, and, and it's like thinking of a glass of water and someone comes and plops a big teaspoon of mud in it.

You know, the, the water's muddy, it's dirty, it's just disgusting, and what are you gonna do about it? So you can sit there trying to sift out the dirt and getting it out, but all you're really gonna do is spill the water everywhere, you know, exhaust yourself, and it's still gonna be pretty muddy. And I love this analogy of what you can change is get a big fresh jug of water and fill it up with fresh water.

And, and that fresh water is represented by all the good things in life, the things that top us up. You know, the yoga class, meeting up with friends that you love, going and patting a puppy, going for a walk. the things that are within your control because you can exhaust yourself trying to get every little bad thing out of your life, or you can just add a heap more good stuff in.

So yeah, that, that's just an idea that helped me during that time. I couldn't control all the variables. And I think, like you said, Kiki, there are so many people doing it tough right now. we're living through a cost of living crisis. The world feels more uncertain than ever as politics feels like it's going crazy all over the world.

people are stressed about climate change, but there are so many unprecedented times. But if this is our new normal, how do we still live joyfully and enjoy our day-to-day? Because, I really do believe how we spend our day is how we spend our life, so we can't just be waiting one day when this is sorted, when that's sorted, when we fix climate change, when politics has calmed down.

You know, when I've got that dream home, when my, when I've lost 10 kilos. It's all about, for me, how do you enjoy no matter where you are, no matter what's going on, how can you find the light and the joy and the hope? Joy lives here right now, and it's so important for our day-to-day enjoyment of our life.

Kristina: Yeah. and I think also the reality is that there will always be tough times, and that will shift, so hopefully politics will get a little bit better at than what it is right now., but, there will be war. So I remember when we started our first business, Kikki K, 2001 is when we opened our first store, and that was when 9/11 just happened in New York, so obviously really awful times.

And Daimaru, the J- Japanese department store, was closing down next door to us. so retail was not in a good shape, and everyone said this is the worst time to open in retail. And the reality is that haven't - I have since then, and we were in retail for over 20 years, I never heard one year saying, "Oh, this is a great year in retail."

It was always tough in different ways, and I think this is how we can see life as well. there will be people in our family or in our friend group that might not be well, or it might be, you know, politics that are crazy, wars that are crazy. And I think it's so important to, yes, we want to be aware of those, and we want to do what we can to support whatever that is, but we also need to look after our own happiness at - or, and joy, and make the most of the small things that are not the big things.

Briony: Absolutely. And you're also, I always think, you're no good to the world, to the causes that you care about, to your family if you've just, you know, you're exhausted and hopeless and burnt out and, you know, you're not helping anyone actually. So I think that's always a good thing to remember when you're feeling stressed about things, once again, that are just beyond your control that you have, that you literally can't do anything to change

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely agree. So there is one that I love. " Sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck." I love that because I think most of us who are listening to this episode can probably look back at a time where we were a little bit upset for maybe it was a partner that didn't work out that you really wanted to hang with, or maybe it was a job that you really wanted, or a business that you really wanted to start.

and then when we look backwards, we think, "Oh, you know, thank God that happened because otherwise I wouldn't be where I am today."

Briony: Totally. Yeah, and it's just the most important thing to hold onto when something has really upset you or disappointed you. I talk about that story in the book. Have you ever heard the good luck, bad luck, who knows story? Yeah, it's like a, you know, a Chinese proverb and if you, if you're listening and you haven't heard it before, it's basically, a farmer is, plowing his fields with his son and, their horse runs off and everyone says to him, "Oh no, such bad luck."

you know, now you've got nothing to plow your fields and, you know, get your crop out. And the farmer just says, "Good luck, bad luck, who knows?" And then the next day the horse comes back and he's got 10 other horses with him, you know, and everyone's, "Oh, you're so lucky." He says, "Good luck, bad luck, who knows?"

And then the son's riding the horse the next day, falls off and breaks his leg, and everyone says, "Oh no, that's such bad luck. Now you've got so - you're gonna be poor and destitute." He says, "Good luck, bad luck, who knows?" And then the army sweeps through the next day and they take all the fit and able men, and his son is not taken off to war, and survives.

And so this story just helped me so much during that recovery time when, you know, I, I had gone through a really, a breakup at the time, which Kiki is so funny. Like, at the time I was so distraught. I was, you know, ugly crying on the couch every day. I was calling Molly. She, really talked me, talked me through it every single, hou- hour, if I'm honest.

I was so upset. And I was thinking the other day how I l- I literally cannot remember what his surname was. I, you know, it's someone that you're, they're so upset about, so distraught about. And I went on to meet the absolute love of my life, my soulmate, my perfect person, and I remember that first year of dating him just thinking, like almost waking up in fright some nights being like, "Thank God.

Thank God that didn't work out with that person I was so distraught about, you know, breaking up with." And life, I just really believe it really has a funny way of working out sometimes. So even sometimes the worst thing possible, that can happen, it can lead to the best things sometimes.

Kristina: And even your, your cancer, which would have been absolutely awful and was for a very long time because you got that out- aftermath of chronic fatigue, et cetera. But if you look back, are there some things that you'd be like, "I wouldn't be where I am today." Like, you probably wouldn't have read, wr- written two books, and we wouldn't have met, and there would be so

Briony: I, yeah, I don't know. Not having Kiki in my life, that's enough. Cancer was worth it.

Kristina: That one you might have been, you'd be fine with. But I'm just thinking about all the things with,

Briony: Yeah. Well, exactly. I mean, who knows the twists and turns of life? Like, I probably wouldn't have met my partner because going through that experience really brought me back to the things I cared m- most about as a little girl. Climate, you know, protecting the environment. It was, you know, it wasn't climate change when I was a little girl, it was just, caring for nature and the animals that we share this beautiful planet with.

That, after cancer, that really led me back to that work, which is where I met my husband. So like, whilst I would, you would never opt into cancer, if I could reverse it in some ways, you probably- I always say I'd opt for the yoga retreat in Bali anytime over, over going through cancer. But, you know, wow, the lessons, the learnings, the wake-up call that this is your one life.

This is not a dress rehearsal. You are alive. That's all that matters, yeah. I, I'm so grateful for that very early wake-up call in life to make sure you're living purposely and you're on task and doing what you care most about, and the other stuff doesn't matter

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. there's a, a girl who's coming on my podcast actually soon who is going through it right now. And, I often think about you when I see her because she's right in the thick of it and, I didn't know you when, that was your reality. I really hope that when she goes through this that she will have all the amazing things that happened to you because of what you went through and the changes that you made to your life

Briony: Yeah, absolutely. I, I know so many people, that have come out the other side and they're just living wonderful lives. And I write about that in the book as well. Sometimes when you're right in the thick of it, you just cannot imagine that there are better days ahead. And I do say in the book, like one day, when I think back to my cancer journey now and that whole patch of my life, it actually feels like someone else's life.

It doesn't even feel like it happened in this lifetime, even though I know it did. But when you're in it, you cannot, you cannot imagine that. But that, that's why I say as well, like something I think when you are in the thick of it is planning for the future and thinking, you know, lightly. I'm not saying like work out your 10-year plan and all your goals and your dreams, but thinking about something really fun and joyful in your future that you're gonna do.

Kristina: keeping your eyes on that, because one day you will be there and you'll be looking back thinking, "I can't even believe I went through that." Yeah, that's a really good one. And another thing that you talk about in the book is to ha- hang out a little bit more with David. So do you wanna, do you wanna talk through that? Because that's a beautiful way,

Briony: Yes. I mean, this was sort of inspired by my little boy a bit as well at the moment. He is just so in awe, you know, as three-year-olds are, of everything to do with the natural world. We live in a, a beautiful, on a beautiful bit of land where there are geckos and bush turkeys and bandicoots and kangaroos and dingoes.

We actually had a dingo come here to try to get into our chook pen the other day. I was like, "This is really Australia, isn't it?" every now and then we put on a little bit of a David Attenborough or a little bit of, you know, National Geographic and just to be reminded and in complete awe of this insanely magical world that we live on.

We can forget it when we're stressed, when we're flat, when we're down, when we're just, you know, deep in our problems. But for me, it's just a, a really simple, easy way that you can do, no matter how you're feeling, to reconnect with the wonder and awe of this insanely cool planet that we live on, I, I just find every time I watch a David Attenborough documentary, that's what I mean when I say hang out with David more often, you just come away completely in awe of the magnitude of life on this earth. So yeah, that's just a simple little easy one. Even if you're sick, feeling crook, you know, or just can't really get out for whatever reason, it's a lovely way to reconnect

Kristina: absolutely. He - And also when he turned 100, I watched that so many times. It was so inspiring because what he's done and what he's impacted in terms of not just animals but also people is nothing but extraordinary

Briony: is a living legend. It's gonna, yeah, be a very sad day when he passes.

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. but the good thing is that there are so many things that he captured for us, which is a good thing.

Briony: What a legacy. what a life. I love seeing some of the early footage of him, you know, when he's young and it's sort of black and white cameras, him with the apes. It's really astonishing. But yeah, what a purpose-driven life to just have spent your life doing that. Incredible.

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So there is another chapter that I really love. There's so many - I mean, everything is in this book. It's like a must-read for everyone, and I actually think this should be on everyone's shelf, even when you are on the top of the world right now, because I think that we always have those days where we need a little bit of a pick-me-up.

And what I love is the page where it says, "Oh, to be 78 again." Can you share that, please?

Briony: Oh, this is a story that I've just never forgotten, and it's probably one of my favourite pages in the book, to be honest, Kiki, so I'm glad you bring it up. But my girlfriend, who I used to work with at Mamma Mia, she went, and did a bit of a different career after that, and went and trained to work in aged care.

And she met these, you know, fabulous, gorgeous people that she was looking after. And she overheard a conversation one day with one of the residents who was in her 90s, and she had a visitor come in. And she said to her visitor, "And how old are you, my dear?" And, she said, "Oh, I'm 78." And the old- her elder said to her, "Oh, to be 78 again."

And I love that so much. I think about it all the time when I'm thinking, "Oh, I'm too old. I've left it too late. I'm behind in life." Imagine being in your 90s and just thinking, "Oh, wow, to be 78 again." So that's like a little mantra I always carry around with me.

Kristina: It's such a good one. And you know, I often, you know, our mutual friend who's also been on my podcast, Anna Karin, who - So for anyone listening, me, Briony, Molly, Maz, Nicole, almost everyone has been on my podcast. we meet once a week and talk about what we are going to do the next week, so a bit of an accountability.

And Anna Karin, who is 10 years older than me, she's always said for many years now that she's gonna be in her prime when she's 70. And I truly believe that that's gonna be the case. I-in fact, I'm almost certain that in her 80s she'll be in her prime. And I think it's such a good way because I think the world is so obsessed with youth and to, to look younger and, and - But I also think that saying that, I also think that now when, there are so many amazing, things that we can do to live longer, so my dream is to live till I'm 120.

I do think that, you know, the world is changing a little bit looking at that. And I always think that if you have a purpose and you know what you want, that will drive you to live a very long life because we have so much we wanna do, and it keeps us inspired.

Briony: Absolutely. Absolutely. I fully believe that you and, and Anna Corinne will be living long, long lives, and I'm looking forward to hanging out with you when we're in, you know, in our 100s.

Kristina: Absolutely. How fun will that be? Our Fridays will be amazing.

Briony: It will be.

Kristina: t-today, I, as the time of recording, Axel, it's his final exam today.

And as he was, driving away today, I was thinking, I remember clearly, there's a lot of things I don't remember, but I clearly remember driving him to his first day of school. And I said to him, I said, "Can I drive you today?" He's like, "No, Mum."

Briony: Oh

Kristina: But I probably could have, I probably could have been the passenger, but then I had this thing to come back to.

but it's, you know, it's, even if we do live, get to live a long life, I feel like life is short, we just wanna make the most of it, and that's why a book like yours is so important. So I wanna talk about one thing that I think is really important for anyone who is going through the, challenges, and we touched a little bit about it, but that is that joy and sadness can live at the same time.

Do you wanna talk a little bit about that?

Briony: Yeah, for me, this is just an idea about you don't have to be all in one camp or the other, and it's really a permission slip that if you're going through something really terrible, you're still allowed to have moments of levity and joy, you know, and vice versa. you don't have to be all in the despair camp or all in the, the joy camp.

And I share a story in the book about, a beautiful family member actually. she's a cousin, and they got the shocking news, that her dad was a bit unwell, went into hospital, but otherwise seemingly was fine, and told he had a couple of days to live. And it was just the biggest shock of their life.

And I remember them saying, so they all just dropped everything, obviously, went to hospital, and, and spent every minute that they could together. And I remember, her mum saying, "How can something so terrible be so beautiful at the same time?" and despite it being the most difficult week of their life, they also had these incredible moments of laughter and joy.

They got to sit with each other and deeply connect and tell each other how much they loved each other, which, you know, so many people never get that opportunity. they were just in that light and shade, in that joy and despair. yeah, so it's just, you know, really a permission slip to the reader that life is full of highs and lows, and sometimes all at the same time, within the same day, within the same moment, and that is okay. Like, you're not losing the plot. it doesn't make you a bad person to be finding levity and joy in challenging times.

In fact, it's really important to, it's just a very human emotion

Kristina: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. for anyone who is going through a bit of a downer time right now, what are some of the things that you think that they could do on daily basis just to kind of just get back into... Because I think sometimes when you, when, you know, you mentioned it earlier where peop- when you are going through, you know, feeling really unwell or going through a bit of a down time, it's really easy to not do anything because it's really hard to take that first step.

But I always feel, and this is something that has been working really well for me in difficult days, so days where you're just like, and this doesn't have to be for anyone who's unwell or going through a challenging time. I think we all have days where it's like, just don't feel quite right and you just could not be bothered doing anything.

So what are some of the tips that, that you can, give us for, you know, when we need to kind of a little bit, be, be a little bit picked up?

Briony: Yeah, absolutely. Well, one of my tips, for myself is I call Kiki and you always give me a, a great pick-me-up. "Oh, that's fine," you know, if I have a disaster speaking gig or something like that, and you'll say, "Oh gosh, we all have those." Like, "Don't worry," like, you know, "You're not giving up now. That's just, you know, one bad moment."

Kristina: I think you should share that because, there are a lot of ambitious people here who wants to be a speaker, and we all have those days even, even in like when you've been speaking for a long time. So do you wanna share that?

I think it's worth

Briony: Yeah. You know, I did a speaking engagement where, you know, I always just put 1000% effort and energy into the preparation. You know, I couldn't have done more preparation. and just for a number of reasons, like, you know, when I got to the event, it was a really strange setup. I couldn't see half the room.

A magpie came in halfway through. Like, it was a luncheon. There'd just been an hour of speeches before I got up. Like, you know, I wanted to sit and have a glass of wine and talk to the person beside me. You know, no one really wanted to sit and listen to someone talk for an hour. But, you know, I got actually a lot of really lovely positive feedback after it.

but I, I remember just coming off feeling like I've prepared for weeks for this, and that was just a total failure. And I w- and I remember just thinking, "I don't wanna do this anymore," like, "I'm done." And I called you on the way home, Kiki, and was like, "I'm done with this speaking thing. Like, nah, it's not for me."

And I remember you, it was just so comforting and so helpful, and you were just saying like, every speaker, you know, anyone that's done anything remotely interesting with their life has had moments like this where they feel like, "Well, I'll just give up. This isn't for me." But it doesn't... you know, don't rule yourself out of the game at that point.

and, you know, with your encouragement really, I, I went on to do a speaking gig a few months later, and it was one of the best experiences that I'd ever had. And I remember coming off stage and just thinking This is all I want to do. I want to... You know? So it's just that thing of never, you know, taking one moment and one failure or even, you know, maybe it wasn't even a failure, it was just in my head it was a failure, and letting that colour everything that you do and the decisions you make going forward.

and having an amazing friend like Kiki, who's your go-to person, you know? And I, I do write in the book about having your own sort of pick-me-up pack ready to go so that... 'Cause when those times come, you're not necessarily thinking, "Oh, these are all the things that really help me." But if you have a really keen awareness of what other things that you need to do that you know get you out of a funk, it's just so much easier.

And, you know, simple things like, you know, and send me a DM and I'll send it to you, but I, I have a go-to playlist that I put on when I'm feeling flat. Like, do not underestimate the power of just a banging soundtrack to lift your mood and get you back in the zone. right through to I've got a whole lot of really practical things in the book to calm your body down.

you know, even things like gurgling, you know, putting a cold compress on your neck. This is where the vagus nerve actually begins, Kiki. I'm sure you know all about it. But it's the body's reset button. It's the calm button, basically. And if you know how to turn that on and off when you're feeling frazzled, these things are incredibly powerful.

something else I write about in the book, Kiki, which I learnt in researching for the book, did you know that if you hug yourself, it releases the same, chemicals as if someone else hugs you? Like, your body doesn't know the difference, you know? So just all these little hacks that are just good for your nervous system, calming you down, but then what are those go-to activities, those go-to people?

And, and literally have it written out. Have it on a note on your phone, or have it printed and have it on the, you know, the back door of the toilet or on the side of the fridge that you know as soon as you are spiraling or having a funky off time, just pick one of those things and do it. And, you know, I know, a, a mutual person that we know is the amazing Simon Reynolds, who you've had on your podcast before.

I just loved, hearing him speak one day, and he was just talking about just taking one tiny, small action. it doesn't have to solve everything, but, you know, is it sending the email, calling someone, you know, going for a quick walk around the block? It just enough to just get you out of that rut. just some momentum, some forward momentum, you know?

So knowing what works for you.

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. I love all those tips. For me, it's, going for a walk. Like I always - not al- I shouldn't say always 'cause sometimes I don't always feel better, but I never feel worse when you go for a walk. And it doesn't have to be like, it doesn't have to be, you know, a specific walk. It could just be around the block that you mentioned.

It's like just, just to go outside or even, even just to go in your backyard or balcony or, or around the block, just so helpful. And it's funny you mention, Simon, because he's coming into our coaching program next week by the

Briony: Oh, amazing

Kristina: And, and I, I asked him if he would do it. He's already been in twice, but I feel like every time...

So I see him probably once a quarter and, for a coffee, and I always walk away thinking, "Oh, that is just the positivity, the mindset that I needed." And then I often feel like in a quarter, one quarter later, I'm like, I think I need another little pick-me-up."

Briony: I need a Simon hit. Yeah

Kristina: absolutely. I mean, he's just fantastic 'cause he's, you know, he's, he has so much wisdom, he's done so much.

So a, lot of the things that I get out of, of catching up with him is business related, but it's also I just walk away there thinking I can do anything. And I think if we have that... But if you don't have that, for anyone who's listening, so you might not have a Simon Reynolds in your life, podcast is fantastic, books is great, and YouTube, there's just so many th- so many things.

And also, I think there's something really important in today's world where everyone spend a lot of time on screen is to really join, you know, when people are speaking locally, it could be, you know, their local council often put things on. It could be a kind of small business network or a co-working place, whatever it is.

I think just that in-person just, you just always feel so much better when you're in w- you know, around other people, don't you?

Briony: 100%. 100%. And I think as well on, on, you know, you and I, we're both really big fans of journaling. I do find when I'm, feeling quite frazzled, just coming back to pen on paper, get off screens, get off devices, don't type it down, just get a pen and paper and sit there and just dump your thoughts out on paper.

And it's just always, illuminating, helpful. and, and in that vein of journaling, just acknowledging that your thoughts are just thoughts. They are not who you are. They're not real. They're not facts. They're just thoughts that are flashing through your mind, you know? And I think as, as we know, we have a negativity bias as human beings.

It's there to keep us alive. So we're going to hone in on the negatives more in our life, and so we really have to override those default settings because as humans, we love to be negative Nancys. It's, it's a survival instinct. It's there to keep us safe, but it's just not very helpful, to live a good and, you know, fulfilling and joyful life.

So we have to call our brain out. You know, "Thanks, brain. I know you're trying to keep me safe, but I'm okay." And then, you know, taking the next step forward

Kristina: Yeah. You know, when I read your book so for anyone who's listening, I just got the kind of first draft of it, so I haven't got the physical copy yet. But, when I read, read what you sent me, Briony, one of the things that I thought of, which I, I think everyone should do once you, once you get the, the copy in your hand, is to every, every chapter that you have or every page where you share a pick-me-up, it's actually a really good way of just, just read it and then journal about it for your own.

'Cause that's what - first thing I thought, "Oh, I want to, I wanna think about all these things that you shared into my own life and how I could take your stories and your pick-me-ups and then translate it into my own world."

Briony: I love that, Kiki. Yeah. yeah, there's nothing like journaling and just having that head space to really deeply reflect and think in a calm way. And, you know, I think if you're journaling day after day and the same things are coming up over and over and over again, it becomes hard to be able to ignore them.

You know? You get clarity around things that you just can't do through talking it through or being in your head about it

Kristina: Yeah. I think it's the best therapy ever.

Briony: A grade and shape.

Kristina: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you can do it whenever. You don't have to go anywhere. so I wanna just ask you, so what would joy for you be on the hardest day? So, so I'm thinking chemo day, which, which will be the most awful day. What would joy for you be on a day like that?

Briony: Yeah. You know, it was simple things that - and, and you know, this is my challenge to anyone listening, is that if I can do this during chemo, you can do it with whatever you're dealing with, be it a, just a crappy Tuesday afternoon or a tough week or a really, you know, hard patch in your life, is that I would wear...

It's when I actually started wearing bright pink lipstick was during chemo because I thought, "I feel awful. I don't look great, but I can pop on some bright lipstick and it gives me the illusion of, like, looking and feeling a bit more alive and joyful." So I started doing that. I'd wear, like, big, bold earrings.

and I had these sparkly shoes with, like, big bows on them. I called them my chemo shoes, and I'm, like, pretty sure they helped just, you know, scare the cancer off. But, the other thing that my, my beautiful mum, she used to make a big jar of bliss balls and take them in for all the nurses. So even in this time when she was going through her daughter going through chemo, she was there thinking of the nurses and the medical staff.

And it's just a great life hack if you're ever dealing with a hospital. Like, look after your nurses. Feed them. They never say no to food. They're very grateful. But it just made the whole experience of going in more joyful, you know? And the other thing that I love, and this is just, like, a joy hack for everyday life, you don't need to be going through a, you know, a bad patch necessarily, is just to learn people's names everywhere you go.

I once really cottoned onto this. There's an amazing Australian female speaker Lisa Smith, I was just sitting with her one day. I, I per chance met her. A friend introduced us. We were sitting at this cafe, and every waitress that came over, she would stop and just say, "And what's your name, dear?"

And, like, you do it with a smile so people don't think they're in trouble, that you're not, like, asking what their name is so you can dob them in. But you just learn their name, and it changes every interaction, and it adds so much joy to just a very normal experience otherwise. We do this actually where we go for swimming lessons on the weekend with our little boys.

We've just learnt everyone's name at the front desk at the cafe, and I would hazard a guess we are the only people that go there that know all the staff's names. But my little boys, as we leave, they're saying goodbye to each person and waving, and it just adds so much joy to otherwise what's a very normal, you know, go to swimming, go home.

so yeah, that, that's what - I write about it in the book, actually, just the joy of learning people's names and saying it. And I've actually had some life-changing interactions as a result. I met, someone that was standing alone at an event one night. He's gone on to be an amazing mentor of mine and a, a dear, dear friend.

And so you just never know what can happen when you have a human moment and just ask someone their name.

Kristina: Absolutely. And you never know who you meet when you do things like that. You know, like your mentor or someone who can help you or, someone that can help someone that you know. You know, I always think about that on the plane when you - I fly a lot, and, I often think about, "I should've made an effort to chat to that person," because you never know who it is.

And I've met so many incred- And sometimes when you, especially when you've been speaking, like the last thing you wanna do is speak to anyone because you'd be like, "I just wanna..." And I often feel that, like I just want to... And that's, that's just, especially if I don't go somewhere after to stay. But actually flying home, I don't feel like speaking.

But I often think I probably should have because, you know, there, there are always so many incredible people out there

Briony: Yeah, and people, everyone just has amazing stories. You know, you learn so much just from, yeah, hearing people's stories. But I agree with you, Kiki. at the moment, like if I ever am on a flight by myself without my children, which is extremely rare, I'm just like, "Oh, time to myself." To like, this is, this is very precious time.

So I've probably dropped off on my talking to people, being that very chatty person on the plane at, in this phase of my life

Kristina: I love my morning. My morning is what anchors my day, and I know you are in the middle of a very, very full season with two young kids, and as we were starting this, you said you've been up since 4:00 AM and maybe interrupted sleep.

So maybe not today, but on an ideal day with your boys, what kind of morning ritual would you like to have in this season of your life?

Briony: you know, they're just all over the shop, depending on whatever time we wake up with baby. You know, I have very cute little alarm clocks, and they go off any, any time between, you know, 4:30 and 7:00, depending on the day. But I think, you know, no matter the chaos of the morning or what's going on, you know, something that I've really learnt in this parenting season is that you can reframe any moment.

And, you know, being woken up early by one of the babies, the flip side of that for me is it is really quite magical to have just some one-on-one time with one of them of a morning. And so just leaning into those moments. I know sometimes at night when I'm putting one to bed and, you know, they're crying and they want me and they, you know, it's all very much in a mummy season at the moment, and I just think, "One day these little people are not gonna need me or want me."

You know, I've got these few years. So actually, a- as much as I'm thinking, "I've got to go and I've got to clean the house and I've got to do this and get, you know, ready for bed," like just reframing it in that moment and just like leaning into that hug and just thinking, "This is everything that I wanted, and how lucky am I to have this moment.

And they're not gonna want me forever. this is magical." And, and also I think often how beautiful that I am the only person on the planet Earth right now that this little human wants and that I can soothe him. You know? That's a superpower. So yeah, I think rather than having, you know, much that I can share about - 'cause I would just be lying if I said, "This is my morning ritual and my routines."

but I do, I do love having a cup of tea, sitting and reading some books with the boys, and just trying to be as present as I can in that morning with them. and I often like as well, I will put on a podcast as we're doing breakfast and getting ready and just having that. It just feels like a little bit of me time as I have my tea, listen to a podcast, learn something about what's going on in the world.

It's kind of the way I like to consume news now as well to not be overwhelmed by it, is I just pick one news deep dive and I'll just have that on the background so I feel like I'm learning something, I'm growing, I'm being connected to the wider world, but I'm being as present as I can in this morning with these beautiful little boys that are, you know, not gonna think Mummy's the coolest thing in the world forever.

Kristina: I know. I remember saying, to Axel once when he was little, I said to him, "Do you know one day you're gonna... There will be someone, some, another woman who you will love more than you love Mum?" And guess what he said? "Don't be ridiculous, Mum."

Briony: That sounds very Axel. That would be a good one for the wedding speech one day.

Kristina: absolutely. So cute, so cute. And, It's one of the things that, you know, when you're in the middle of the season that you're now, it's sometimes you just wish for some space and, you know, I get that and I absolutely had that. But then all of a sudden they're 18 and, you know, like, you know, I always check, he's 18, so he can do whatever he wants, but I always check if he's, you know, if I go to bed before he's home, I always, if I wake up, I always check the Life360 that we all are on so we can check where everyone is, and it's just, yeah, it's just so nice.

And I, I think, you know, g- kids, it's just another season, so, you know, it's as fun because Axel is, you know, starting his own business and, you know, I sent something to Amy today and I said, "Look what Axel is doing." And she's like, "Oh my gosh, he needs to coach us in that." he's just launching a new business and the way he's done it's just so

Briony: Oh, it's so extraordinary what he's doing, and no one is surprised that you have an extremely entrepreneurial son. He's grown up seeing, you know, the Queen in action and, you know, with your husband Paul as well, and yeah, just, just wonderful. So, I have really enjoyed, you know, I learn so much from you, and I feel like you're an incredible mentor and friend to me, but particularly in a parenting sense as well.

You know, just, just hearing all the wonderful things that you've done with your kids and how much you've enjoyed parenting and, but also your encouragement for me just to make the space and the time for this and be fully in it, you know, has been really wonderful. You kinda really need parenting mentors as well as, you know, business and life mentors

Kristina: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think I often look back and, because one of the things that we did, and we were not sure if this was the right thing to do, was to take Ax- spec- specifically Axel, because he really wanted to travel with me. Tiffany didn't want it as much, but she did a little bit, but not as much as Axel.

Axel was hardly in school, and I was like: I wonder if this is a good thing, you know, will he left, be left, you know, get behind in school? Will he regret it? Because we were traveling so much, and now when I look back, I'm like, it was the best upbringing he could ever have

Briony: Absolutely. My mum is a primary school teacher, and she always says, "Never let school get in the way of a good education." And you know, we, we, we homeschooled for a year and traveled the world and, like, the, the experiences you have doing that, you know, just blitz anything that you can do, I think, while sitting in a, in a classroom

Kristina: Absolutely. Absolutely. one more question and then the final question and we are done. have you read anything lately, something that has inspired you apart from your own book?

Briony: I feel like I'm deep in a fantasy era at the moment, which has surprised myself. But, you know, ev- every woman I knew was reading it, so I, I was like, "What's all the hype about?" And now I've fallen down the, the fantasy rabbit hole. But, like you, Kiki, I always have about 50 books on the go.

something that I'm reading at the moment was a book, by... His name is, I think it's Jefferson Fisher, and it's called "the Next Conversation." Yeah, and I've been really loving that, in the sense of, just really rethinking conversations and how you engage with people.

And something that's really struck me was that an argument is actually not something to be won. It was a real shift, 'cause he said if you win an argument, you actually never win. You lose 'cause you lose the person's goodwill. And so it's actually, having goals for the conversations that you have with people.

I just loved that. I'd never thought about going into a difficult conversation with a goal. And he said, and the goal shouldn't be that I want them to say they're sorry and they're terrible and I'm the best and I'm right on everything. Like, that's not a realistic goal. But the goal might be to listen without getting defensive or to, try and understand further, like, where they're coming from.so that's been quite illuminating because so much of life is our relationships and the conversations we have that underpin those relationships. So

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. I haven't read that book, but I have followed him. He was a big inspiration for me to start talking to camera because he, um... So for anyone who does- who doesn't know him, he is a lawyer, and he shares on his Instagram, and he might be on other platforms as well, but the way I look at him is on Instagram.

And he basically, every afternoon, he just goes into his car when he's driving home, and he shares one thing that a, a client or something that came up in court or, with his team that came up, and he just shares that. And it just made me - Because sometimes, f- you know, I, and I think you can relate to this, since we're doing this together, this YAP challenge, which I'm not doing, but I just love not overthinking it.

And I started doing it a little bit like him, and then, you know, life happened, and I'm not at the anymore. But I am not giving up. But he was a big inspiration for that for me.

Briony: Yeah, exactly. And he literally just, yeah, was a small town lawyer, like recorded a video on camera and it, a few, a few in went really viral, because yeah, turns out everyone in the world needs to improve their communication skills. Funny that

Kristina: And the final question for you today is, knowing what you know now, what kind of advice would you give to your younger self?

Briony: do you know what? In a strange way, I would flip that question. And I think a lot of the experience of going through cancer, through chronic fatigue, heartbreak, all the various trials that I've been on the last few years, it's actually reconnected me a lot to go back and listen to the little girl version of myself who was actually, you know, and I think we often underestimate kids in Western society and modern life, but they are so full of wisdom, and they are so capable, and they see the world with such clarity.

And I remember when I was a little girl, all I wanted to do was grow up and create two inventions: something that cleaned the air and something that cleaned the water. You know, I just understood that we just need to look after the planet that we live on and protect it. And the older that I get, I feel like the more I come back to that little girl at the beginning.

and so it wouldn't be so much about me talking to myself, but myself now listening to what that little girl, who she was, what lit her up, what had got her excited, and not being afraid that, that she was already on the right path, you know, at seven. That, you know, just 'cause we're older doesn't mean we're necessarily wiser, you know?

And I think often it, the experience of going through something really traumatic is a stripping back to the things that matter most and to what living a good and purposeful life is. And the, the, the little child you probably knew

Kristina: Absolutely. What a beautiful way of looking at it. And, I, I agree 'cause I think sometimes when you strip away all the noise and all the, all the things, when you look back, like you probably, most of us probably like definitely some changes because with age comes wisdom. but there's definitely, often the same, the same thing.

I often look back on like I loved to sign all the things that I... And I loved walking, like absolutely loved walking as a kid as well. So there's some things that I'm like, "Yeah, I- I'm still doing all those things."

Briony: Yeah. And I think now being a parent, you know, as you've seen with your children, like, children are just so staggeringly capable. I, you know, when I think now of the conversations I have with my three-year-old and the things he knows and the things he can do already, you know, before I was a parent, I sort of think, I thought those things would be coming at six, seven, eight.

But, you know, we underestimate kids, but they're just incredible and have so much wisdom and just that joy for life. I think, you know, it's a, just a great reminder to be more toddler and, and, you know, live in the moment and enjoy it and just be in awe of the world around you

Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been so inspiring. I am going to link to everything, to your Instagram, to your link to pre-order. So anyone who are thinking about getting a couple of books, pre-ordering is fantastic because it helps the author, get more exposure, which we want because when we put so much effort in the books, we want them to obviously sell.

So, so I'm gonna link to all that and, I can't wait to have you back soon, Briony, to talk about whatever you're up to next. And, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Beautiful book, beautiful message from the most beautiful person

Briony: Thank you, Kiki, and thank you for having me. It's always just a joy when we get to hang out. It's one of my favourite things to do. And, thanks for, yeah, inviting me into your beautiful community, and constantly in awe of you and inspired by you. So yeah, it's, I, I love that you have this platform to allow the Kiki magic to sprinkle further afield into the world

Kristina: Wow, that was a beautiful conversation. Thank you so much, Briony. What I love most about Briony is that she has lived through really hard things, and she still believes your life can be wonderful.

If you take one thing from today, let it be this: when life feels heavy, you don't have to fix everything all at once. Just take one small step. you'll find a link to Briony's new book in the show notes, and it's on pre-order now. as an author, we love to get pre-orders. So if you are thinking of getting the book for you and someone else who may need it, now is a perfect time

And if you got someone in your life that doing it tough right now, please forward this episode Because sometimes all you need is to hear from someone else who has gone through a tough time what they do, and I think this episode is absolutely perfect for that. take good care of yourself. And as always, I'll be back next week.

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