#374 - CONQUER YOUR IMPOSTER, with Alison Shamir

I'm SO excited to share this week's episode with you – it's one I think so many of you will truly connect with.

In this conversation, I chat with Alison Shamir, a globally recognised voice on imposter syndrome and the brilliant author of Conquer Your Imposter.

It's such an important topic – because imposter syndrome doesn’t just affect beginners. It can hit anyone – even the most accomplished, experienced and successful among us – and hold us back from living the life we were meant to live.

Alison shares her own powerful story of experiencing debilitating imposter syndrome, how it showed up in her career, and the breakthrough moment that helped her transform her life.

We dive deep into what imposter syndrome really is (spoiler: it’s different from self-doubt!) and how we can start to change the inner narratives that are keeping us stuck.

Here are three things you'll take away from this episode:

• A clear understanding of how imposter syndrome works – and how it’s different from everyday self-doubt.

• Tools and mindset shifts to help silence your inner imposter.

• Why your past doesn’t have to define your future.
  

I personally learnt SO much from this chat – and even though I haven’t experienced imposter syndrome myself, I know many of you have.

This is a must-listen. 💛

Take a walk, grab a cup of tea, and join us for this powerful conversation.

As always, I’d LOVE to hear what resonates with you from this episode and what you plan to implement after listening in. So please share and let’s keep the conversation going in the Dream Life Podcast Facebook Group here.    

Have a wonderful weekend 💛

Dream Life & kikki.K Founder

SHOW NOTES:

• Alisons book: Conquer Your Imposter
• Follow me on Insta and TikTok
• Join my Platinum Coaching Program (NEW Member Trial offer - save $200!) - where in July our focus is on Creating a Life of Freedom: Reconnecting with what freedom means to you - taking small, empowering steps to create it.
Learn more here.
• Join my virtual book club GROW for July where we meet weekly on Zoom to discuss and squeeze the learnings from great books. This July we're reading Make Money Easy: Create Financial Freedom and Live a Richer Life, by Lewis Howes. Align your financial goals with your Meaningful Mission to achieve lasting abundance and prosperity, from the host of The School of Greatness. NEW Member trial offer - just $9! Learn more here

• Dream Life Community Facebook Group: Connect with like-minded dreamers.

RESOURCES:

• Sign up to our email list here to hear about upcoming workshops.
• Take your first step to getting clarity on what you want from life with this free bonus dreaming exercise here 101 Dreams Audio Guide 
• Buy Kristina's book, Your Dream Life Starts Here
• Discover how close you are to living your Dream Life. Take our 5min Quiz here and get personalised insights emailed to you...

TRANSCRIPT:

Kristina: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Hi there and welcome back to Your Dream Live podcast. This is the podcast where we explore powerful ideas, tools, and inspiring stories to help you create a life you truly love. Your dream live. I'm your host, Kristina Karlsson, and today I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation that I know so many of you will resonate with.

We are diving into a topic that affects even the most successful, ambitious, and high achieving people out there, imposter syndrome. That nagging feeling that [00:02:00] you are not good enough, that you are somehow. Taking it and that any minute now someone will find out that you don't belong.

Sound familiar? If so, you are going to love today's guest and even if it doesn't sound familiar, You will get something out of this inspiring conversation because Alison Shair is so amazing and, she's so generous in what she's sharing. And, she's a powerful voice on the subject and the author of the brilliant new book, conquer Your Imposter.

I love this so much, even though I am not suffering from imposter, but we got so many people in the coaching program and people that are missed that have this challenge. So I really, really loved this book and I can't wait to read it in my book Club Grow because. Even if you are not suffering from this, it's really good to understand it.

I got [00:03:00] so much out of this book and I can't wait to read it, discuss it, and implement whatever is relevant for each person. In today's conversation, Allison and I talk about the many ways imposter syndrome shows up in our lives and how we can begin to rewrite those internal narratives. Build true confidence and finally start living the life we dream of.

Without that inner critic dragging us down, you'll walk away with practical tools, mindset shifts, and plenty of inspiration to help you silence your imposter and step boldly into their best version of you. That was. Always meant to shine. I love this so much. Let's dive right in.

well,

hello Alison, and a very warm welcome. I am really excited to have you on my podcast.

[00:03:55] Alison: I'm so excited to be here, Kristina. Thank you. And can't wait to see where this [00:04:00] chat goes.

[00:04:00] Kristina: Yeah. Thank you. Well, first we're gonna, we are obviously gonna talk about your new book, conquer Your Imposter. But before we do, I would love to ask you a question that I ask all my guests, and that is, did you have a dream as a kid, something you wanted to do or have or become?

[00:04:18] Alison: I did. And uh, it's still a very big passion of mine. Um, but I wanted to be a professional athlete,

professional sports star. So I grew up in a sports mad family, and I. I've always played sport, my two brothers and I,

so you through a lot relations, just sportsman family, we played everything. We did everything.

We were always outside. And I always had a dream to be, uh, a professional athlete and, uh, a professional footballer actually, as we say, as you know, in Europe, uh, but soccer in Australia. And, uh, I played for many years and I make the joke now that I was born about 10 years too [00:05:00] early.

To make it a professional career that had,

money, you know, attached to it.

So now the professional women's football, which I love to see, and as you know, you know, especially outta Sweden as well, and globally, football's huge, uh, in particular for the women as well.

 

[00:05:15] Alison: so that was my dream. So I followed it through to about 17 years old, but had to make a big decision that,

at the time there was no money in that.

and then I pursued. Other things. So, uh, I still dream and watch sports about, oh gosh, I wish that was me or what could have been. But um, I just have to vicariously live through, other amazing athletes.

[00:05:37] Kristina: Yeah. Well, that's so fun and, um, and amazing that you, that you followed through until you didn't anymore. And, uh, yeah, it's sometimes we are too early in terms of the, um, you know, it's so nice to see it develop now and it's so fun when, um, It was a World Cup. I can't remember which one it was, but when we had, uh, Sweden Air, 'cause actually a family friend played in the team, in the Swedish team.

[00:06:00] So that was really fun, really great. Yeah. Okay. So, I love for you to share a little bit about your journey before we get into your book, because we got listeners from all over the world, and that might be some listeners, they haven't heard about you yet.

[00:06:16] Alison: Sure. So, it's been a, an interesting journey for me because I've written a book on, imposter syndrome. And part of the reason, which I know we'll, we'll probably cover somewhere in this conversation, that I wrote that book, was because I myself experienced debilitating imposter syndrome for.

A decade of my life, and it's kind of going through that, uh, and coming out the other side led me to, to be where I am now. but you know, prior to that, I, I had a fairly, tough upbringing, you know, for a better word. And there's multiple things. And I have, you know, been through some of which I touch on, you know, in, in the book, in the earlier chapters.

you know, and I had to deal with a lot. I had to experience a lot at very young ages. And that, uh, was very challenging in many ways, as [00:07:00] I'm sure a lot of people can resonate, and it really impacted me. At key stages of my identity and and development. And I know, you know, you and your other guests talk a lot about that as well.

And there's these critical periods for identity and development and a lot happens by the age of seven. I. Um, for those listening, no matter where you are around the world or your cultural upbringing, you know, we form a lot of our core identity, which is always evolving, but by the age of seven. So for me, a lot of the childhood trauma I went through happened between the ages of four years old and 17 years old.

So I'm sure we can all relate. There's lots of formative other things that are going on at that time. and so a lot of what I take out of my past, and I mentioned in the book as well, is that going through some of the traumatic things also gave me a silver lining. This is how I look at it now. being a very resilient individual, having to be very independent from a young age, having to battle a lot.

And again, that's part of the journey what got me here. But I went through, [00:08:00] outside of that, went through fairly normal schooling. grew up was very into sports and, and friendships and that sort of thing. And then moved into the business world and working very early. So I started working at 19 years old when most of my friends were at university.

I. I took a different route through private business, college, et cetera, into the workforce. And then I spent most of my career working in technology. So, you know, a quick piece there. So I had a long career in technology, around 16 years in the corporate spaces. So working a lot for American companies and, and very much global roles.

Um, so I've always traveled a lot. And then in 2013, I had a debilitating, Experience with imposter syndrome, uh, which ties into the story now. And it was my journey through that that led me to, you know, the expertise and the work that I'm doing now, which commenced from 2019. So, for those listening, if you now run your own business or perhaps aspire to do so, or even if you're working for, for someone else, I'm sure this will be relatable, is I.[00:09:00]

Had this moment where I wanted to step out from a corporate career and start my own business. And, it was a big transition and that's what I did in 2019. And, uh, it's been really hard, as you would know, Kristina, and the joys of it. I often make the joke that I left my nine to five to work 24 7 for myself.

Um, I found better balance in particular in the last three or four years. so yes, that's a little bit about my journey. So X corporate leader. Predominantly in the technology sector. Uh, you know, it came through a lot in childhood, which I know unfortunately is, you know, very common, for a lot of people.

And then experienced imposter syndrome myself and then here I am. So, um.

[00:09:38] Kristina: Wow. What a journey. And, uh, I'm sorry you had to experience difficulties, but what I find when a lot of my guests have, and a lot of people that I meet and a lot of my friends have as well, it's hard and it's sad and. The good thing is when you can turn it around, which you have done such an amazing way, and that's inspiring for anyone who is listening and going through [00:10:00] perhaps a challenging time now, and you're seeing the silver linings, which is amazing, but you cannot see that until you've gone through it. So, I'd love to, talk a little bit about that, but can we start With your imposter, so, I'm running a coaching program and, uh. I don't know if I'm naive in terms of when it comes to what I think is possible, but I have, very little imposter, definitely lots of self-doubt, which we all do.

I think, and I'm not an expert in this, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but when we have big dreams, which is what I'm always encouraging people, that's what. My mission is to inspire people to live their dream life, whatever that is for them. And it doesn't, doesn't mean big global things or, you know, big corporate roles or big businesses.

It's whatever people feel like they're calling is, whatever that is. But when we set big dreams and when we set big goals. Self-doubt is inevitable. Like it's just part of it. Because if we've never, haven't done, done it before, you wonder, is [00:11:00] it even possible for me? Can I do it? Because you don't have the knowledge, you don't have the experience.

So, so I think that that's a little bit different because one of the things that I've learned, and I love to love to, I've obviously read your book, so got more, insight to these now, but what, I have decided to do in my own life is that to not look at what other people are doing because I find that.

if we look at what other people are doing, we are spending so much energy because there's always someone who's more clever, better, have a better business or are in ahead of us. And, and I often look at someone like Oprah, which everyone I. Putting on a pedestal. But look what she started with.

Like, she, you know, she had a difficult childhood, but she also was black and she was doing things that a woman never done before. So I think sometimes we just look at these people and, and, you know, people often say to me, uh.

That, you know, it's easy for you because you had Kiki K and I said, Yes.

it's easy now, but it wasn't when I started, like I had no idea about anything. So I love to unpack all this, but let's just start [00:12:00] with you in terms of how did you experience imposter and what did you do about it?

[00:12:06] Alison: Yeah. So firstly, I mean, you're exactly right on everything that you, I'm gonna echo some of the great things that you just said, um, in a moment, and I'm glad that you brought up Oprah as well, because just quickly on that, to your point, Oprah. Horrible things. You know, for those of you that, dunno, horrible things happened to Oprah when she was growing up and what she was exposed to, plus then the racism, plus the bias.

now, you know, she's obviously gone on to become who she is and, uh, and the success that she has. And also fun fact for everyone. Oprah has never experienced imposter syndrome. And I'll explain why as we sort of go through this and the.

Back to your question around me, so. My imposter syndrome stemmed from a story from my childhood, and it was the relationship with my mother. So as a top line here for, for everyone listening, imposter syndrome is tied to a story from our past for most of us, predominantly in [00:13:00] childhood or adolescent years.

Not always, but sort of the majority sits there. And what that means is, is somewhere in our past we have had an a moment exposure to someone or a situation. That has made us feel less than, and that then manifests or comes out in adulthood, which is where we traditionally see imposter syndrome show itself.

You know, run 17, 18 years old is where we see it. And it comes out as that sense of, oh gosh, I'm some kind of intellectual, fake, feral fraud. I don't belong in the room. It's only a matter of time before everybody finds out, you know, that I shouldn't be here, that I'm not good enough, that I'm not smart enough, that I'm not worthy enough.

So that's just some common hallmarks around imposter syndrome and for me, it manifested in that way. So. the other, so the other key thing I need to say there is we feel this way when we're experiencing imposter syndrome, despite the fact that we have evidence to prove we do belong. You know, we've done the work or we've [00:14:00] launched the business idea, or we have stepped into the room and been brave and used our voice, you know, whatever it is that you.

Have done or where you are, you've earned the right to be there, but you're not internalizing it. So this persistent feeling of I'm a fraud, I'm a fake, I don't belong, which is imposter syndrome persists, right? So we've got the evidence, we're ignoring it now. That is exactly how it manifested in me. So. You heard me say early in about my upbringing.

I entered the workforce early at 19, which at the time was early, so this is back in the early two thousands. You know, friends went to university. I was in the workforce full-time, so not part-time, like full-time working. And um, I built a very successful career from a very young age. The one thing I've always been is really ambitious.

So I've always had, and partly that comes from a lot of what I went through in my childhood because I had to be very independent and I had to face a lot of things on my own. And that fueled an ambition of, well, um, that sort of old [00:15:00] adage of if it's to be, it's up to me. Mentality, which I think all of us globally can sort of relate to.

And so I thought, well, I've gotta do this. I've gotta work for myself, I've gotta be independent. So even though I had a supportive father, the issues for me were coming on my from my mother and that sort of side of the, the family. Um, so I had to be independent. So I grew a great career.

left my home hometown in 2007 to move to Sydney, uh, which is where I live now. And I travel globally. And, um. I built a really successful career, but each time I took a step up and each time, so I was doing the work, I was achieving the promotions. I was earning great money. I was in the room at the table, even if I was the only woman, which was very common back in the day in technology.

Anyone listening who works in tech, you know that even in the early two thousands, US women were heavily in the minority. In every role, not just at the top, right? So I was in these rooms. However, I had this persistent feeling that I was going to be exposed. [00:16:00] I had a persistent feeling that it was only a matter of time before my boss called me and said, I'm sorry, Alison.

You know, we gave the wrong person the job. You don't believe he, you don't belong here. You shouldn't be leading the team. So. Despite the success, this persistent feeling of I'm a fake, I'm a fraud. It's only a matter of time, you know, I've oof, I've just gotten through, a big meeting. I fool them again. I fool them into believing I'm smart enough to be here.

This is how it played out in my career. Now, that happened from the beginning of my career in the early two thousands, right up until 2013. So there was this decade in every role that I was in, every promotion that I took, it wasn't there in the beginning. Every day. It was there in key transitional times, but the more successful I became, the heavier that voice and that story became because I perceived that I had more to lose.

As you would know, the more stages, the more rooms you're in, the more exposure you have. if you're harboring this feeling of, [00:17:00] I'm a fake, I'm an imposter, which isn't true, but it feels very real, then you feel like, well, the bigger the stage, the more chance I have to be exposed. And so that's why the feeling can actually get worse.

The more successful you become. So if you're listening to this, unfortunately we can't outrun imposter syndrome. We can't just get, you know, grow the business higher, create more revenue, launch the new product, or exceeding your current corporate role and just hope that it will go away. I wish, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

Um, and so for me, Kristina, one day in 2013, my literal career body mind came crashing down. So I was getting ready for a very important meeting. I was leading my team into this meeting. I was working for an American technology company, and the story in my head was so loud that week leading into the meeting and on that day that it caused me to have a very significant.

Panic attack in my office. So I made it, remember running across the reception and I made it into the bathroom [00:18:00] and it was this horrendous experience because I had pushed my brain and body so hard and the anxiety and the cortisol, and I know, you know, you understand to my brain that my brain actually started to shut itself down.

And for those of you that are listening who know a bit about the sciences, that our brains are designed for two things to start with. You know, to keep us moving, to keep us alive, and to keep us moving. and so my brain and body just shut down this day because clearly I'd pushed it too far and it was a really, quite frankly, horrendous experience. And it was. That experience, which led me to learning. I had been, suffering something called imposter syndrome and I'd been suffering at, at a higher level.

There is a scale and then that spawned about 12 months of intensive self-work to understand and unpack that. And so I make the joke, and you might've heard it before, that I broke up with imposter syndrome in this. Between 2013 and 2024. I say I broke up with imposter syndrome because I faced it head on and I was [00:19:00] able to unpack it and come out the other side.

but that's how it showed up for me. So, you know, the interestingly amount of imposter syndrome too, Kristina, and you would've got this from the book, is that those who experience imposter syndrome, and you are correct, it isn't everyone but it, you know, data tells us it's around 70% of individuals at some stage in their life or career.

But it's not everyone. You know, but again, we, the thing about it is, and the irony of imposter syndrome is you can only experience it when you do have the qualifications, do have the runs on the board, are leading the business right now are doing the role. So unfortunately, it is an experience reserved for those of us that have the credentials, have the talent, do belong in the room.

But yet still tell ourselves that we do not because of these outdated stories we tell ourselves. and some environmental circumstances, which as you know, I go through extensively in the book as well. But it's about finding our own journey and bringing together the individual components and the [00:20:00] environmental components, and that's how we navigate out.

So I know through sharing, my story and all the work that I've done across more than a decade that I know a lot of you listening to this will. Relate to that story and how it showed up for me. But I want you to know that it isn't a one size fits all experience. And so how you might experience imposter syndrome, although the definition remains, it depends on where you grew up, how you grew up, your individual circumstances, what you've chosen to do for work.

You know, have you moved countries? There are all of these other factors that come into play, you know, into that experience. But it was intense for me, which is why I had to do the deep work to come out of it.

[00:20:39] Kristina: Yeah. I would say that I don't suffer from imposter. And, with my first business, K, K, K, I actually didn't and I was spending a lot of time thinking about it because I was thinking, am I too naive? Am I, am I, like, I was thinking, why didn't I have it? and it would be interesting to hear, hear your take on this.

I think [00:21:00] because I was following so many incredible people, people like Oprah, people like, Richard Branson, who. is an, like, the biggest dreamer that I've ever met. But also, you know, what he's done with, sometimes the limited resources in terms of money, in terms of when he started, obviously not now, but also, he was dyslexic, which, I can only imagine, would be a difficult thing to do when you, Running a business, but also I remember him sharing. that didn't understand the spreadsheet.

So he was in, he was running these amazing businesses but didn't really understand. So, all the people that I followed were not perfect, and I think that's why I always want to. People to share their challenges because that helps other people. and you know, now I'm sharing my, you know, my losing my business and also all the other challenges that I'm facing.

But I never had that. And I was thinking, is that because. I was too naive or was it because I was following people and I thought they had challenges? Like me, for me, could have [00:22:00] easily been an issue because I didn't, at first, I didn't have any money. I didn't have any knowledge around business. I also didn't, I mean, I didn't know anything about retail.

And then when I looked at all the other people that I was following that they didn't know either, and they worked it out and, The success that we had with Kiki K is absolutely not my success. It's the team. Because I surrounded myself with unbelievably smart people. And I think if you as an imposter can realize you don't actually have to be you can't be good at everything.

So I think, I don't, and it'll be interesting with your take on this is, is it that we. A lot of us are ambitious. A lot of people listening here are ambitious, but you can't be good at everything. And that the, the way I looked at it was like, I'm good at certain thing. I'm, I was a visionary. I was good at setting really crazy, big dreams and goals and good at, you know, making things happen in the early days.

There were so many things that I was not good at. I was not good at the financial side. I was not good at the [00:23:00] operational side. I was not good at retail. It was a lot of things, but then I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna surround myself with people that are good at that. So, love your take on this, because maybe I, yeah, I was, when I, I took a lot of notes thinking maybe I was just really stupid.

[00:23:17] Alison: Well, and I think look so much of what you shared that, you know, plays into to exactly what, why you didn't experience imposter syndrome. And that's because a couple of reasons. So, um, and I'll break it down in two parts also. So this is, you know, great for anyone listening to this to have sort of some practical ways to look at it as well.

So imposter syndrome first and foremost is driven by, the stories we tell ourselves and the way that that then forms the beliefs. We hold. So I'm sure a lot of you, if not all of you, have heard of, you know, limiting beliefs or, the, the fact that we really do act out our belief system, right?

Our belief system really anchors us. And then there's stories we tell ourself around that and it's sort of no different with imposter syndrome, except they become, can become really embedded in negative [00:24:00] ways and they really sort of hold onto our at and identity level and that's when we get, quite deep, but.

Where I'm going with that with you in that exact example that you shared, is that when you were doing all of those things, you. Kiki Kay. And the other things that you talk about yourself, you know, as a, as a visionary or someone who had these views and, and was able to think and plan. And so ultimately that was tied to your belief system.

And I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, and we can sort of do this live now, but in there you would've had a belief of, you know, and I'm, I'm paraphrasing here, so I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but of like, well, I can give this a go or I wanna do this, or I'm passionate about this and I'm going to explore it and I'm going to take ownership of the things that I'm good at.

And then yes, I'll. Grab other people or lean on other people or network or hire them at whatever stage to, to do that. So you constantly have this underlying belief that, well, if they can do it, I can. Or why not me? Or I'm gonna give it a, a go and I'm going to give it my best and then we'll see what happens and I'll play the next card in front of me in the next card.

So that shows that we had [00:25:00] that belief of, well, I can give this a go. Like, why not me? And the difference between someone experiencing imposter syndrome for someone who doesn't. The same person in that scenario, if imposter syndrome was there, would've not had that belief, would've said instead of saying, well, why not me?

I can give this a go and play the cards in front of me, which is what you did. You know, Kristina and Richard Branson, that example, someone with imposter syndrome will say, who am I? You do this. So the question we ask of ourselves and the story that follows that, that we tell ourselves are fundamentally different.

So that's the first part. And the second part of what you said, which I think was was really brilliant as well, was the other differentiator of imposter syndrome versus not imposter syndrome. Let's stay there for a moment. So the 70% who do versus the 30% that don't, just to talk off those sort of clear global stats at the moment is that.

When you experience imposter syndrome, you have a skewed perception of [00:26:00] competence. So what it means to be competent or skillful, and you have a skewed perception of success. And you would've seen this in the book, Kristina, in chapter three, um, trilogy of Self, where I talk about this balance of this pendulum.

And in the center of the pendulum is where competence and success comes together. And on the other side. the two main ends of the pendulum are confidence and self-doubt, because as Ette said earlier, imposter syndrome is not self-doubt. It's a separate experience. And so I've got this graphic in the, in the book about this pendulum.

And so back to your sort of question and scenarios. When imposter syndrome takes over, we measure ourself with a different competence lens, which means. That we don't surround ourselves with the right people. We, we feel that we have to do it all. That we have to be an expert in all that we have to be a perfectionist or some kind of superhuman, or that we're not allowed to make a mistake or that we're not allowed to test and learn and we work [00:27:00] against ourselves with this unhealthy.

And when I say unhealthy lens of competence, I mean that no matter what bar we set for ourselves, we will never hit it because we will always tell ourselves when imposter syndrome is in the driver's seat, that you should have set the bar higher or you should have set more than one bar or goal. So again, it ties into the stories we tell ourselves.

And then to the final bit I wanna share and for those listening is then it skews our perception of success. So when you were building that, and, and again, please correct me if I'm wrong, you are like, well, I know what I wanna do and I'm going to start with this step, or these two or three steps and then, you know, so you had a version of success but you knew it was on the pathway and then I'm sure once you sort of hit that or got to a level, you are like, okay, now we are looking to do this, or we are looking to, to launch the next store.

So you had this lens of success that you knew what it was to begin with, but you also knew in your mind that it would expand and you were. For a better word, right? Good, bad or ugly? We're on the [00:28:00] journey. And we can only play the card in front of us or a couple of cards at a time. 'cause as you know, um, but when we're, when we're got imposter syndrome in the driver's seat, our view of success is, and, and this is what you're saying is, I must be the best or I must be able to do it at an exceptional level and I can't make a mistake.

And so again, the lens of how to be competent and the lens of how to measure success gets skewed. So if we can stay on the other side. You know the side that you are on and the Oprah, and now that I'm on, now that I've come through imposter syndrome, we measure ourselves through a healthy lens of competence.

We're able to know that we are not geniuses at everything. We know what we are great at. We are comfortable and confident in ourselves to surround ourselves with other great people. We don't do negative comparison. We might look at other people through admiration. We might be inspired, but we, to your point, we don't waste time or energy on negative comparison.

We own our own. Lane or [00:29:00] lanes, you can have one lane and we care about when you're on the other side of imposter syndrome, you care about. Who you are authentically. You care about owning your own strengths. You know that you can't be perfect. You know, there's no such thing as a perfect person. But again, for everyone listening when imposter syndrome, so think of imposter syndrome, like this lens that comes down or this, this mask and I don't mean the cool mask, like Wonder Woman or any of your favorite superheroes, right?

Where it emboldens you. Right. And you feel like I've got this cool mask on, or this like, you know, um, ninja bandana around my head and I feel a million dollars and I feel like, let me, you know, let me add it, let me it the wrong way. I mean the mask or the lens that comes down and skews your perception. So that's just some talking points on that is to sort of why you didn't experience it.

And I love that you've said that. ' cause it's super important for everyone listening here that, again, not everyone experiences impostor syndrome but everyone experiences self-doubt, which you covered beautifully at the start. So every human being, no matter whether you're listening to [00:30:00] this from Sweden, here, from Australia, the us, Argentina, wherever you are, you know, across South America, wherever it is, we all experience self-doubt.

It's a human trait, just like we can all demonstrate and build confidence. Universally we all have in common, right? And then data tells us around 70% of us will experience imposter syndrome. And in my work and my expertise, I actually estimate that it's slightly lower than 70%. And when I say that sometimes to audiences, they can be a bit shocked by that.

But because. Many individuals conflate the two experiences of self-doubt and imposter syndrome. So as you said, again beautifully at the start, they're in a moment of self-doubt because to your point, Kristina, they're doing something new. They don't necessarily have the skills yet 'cause they've never done it before.

Right? If you are listening to this and you are launching your first business, it doesn't matter what area your business is in, if you have never launched your own business. Right. Never run it and you do it for the first [00:31:00] time. It's perfectly normal and natural that you might doubt components of that or go, oh gosh, like do you know, and that sort of thing.

That's very, very normal when it crosses into imposter territory. We are not criticizing what we do or our capabilities. We are criticizing who we are. An identity level, the language is very personal. It's, I am not enough. Who am I to do this or have a, have a go at launching this business, et cetera. So language plays a vital part in imposter syndrome, and we get really personal and really nasty.

Whereas on the flip side, as you would know, and again, Oprah, I think, you know, globally, we can all, we all understand and know who, who Oprah is. The thing I love about Oprah's story, Kristina, and you might have seen it in. I know you're very familiar with her work is no matter what she went through and she went through some, again, horrific, things.

Oprah tells this famous story and, um, I can't recall the exact quote off my head, but basically she says that I always knew I was destined for [00:32:00] greatness.

[00:32:00] Kristina: Yeah.

[00:32:00] Alison: I still get chills when I, say that out loud and I know, you know, in your work because Perhaps it was the universe, obviously, and I believe in that and energy, and she just knew,

[00:32:11] Kristina: Yeah.

[00:32:12] Alison: and that's what kept her going.

Now, you know, thinking back to a child, a black child growing up in America in a very, you know, dangerous time. but there was something inside her that just told her. And so I, I think that that's really important as well, that we need to stop saying to ourselves, who am I to do this? And instead, the question to ourselves needs to be, why not me?

[00:32:38] Kristina: Yeah.

[00:32:39] Alison: that re redirection or reframe, I, I call it redirection, but you know, a lot of people say reframing. It's fine. Ei either term. Whatever you're comfortable with makes a significant shift in the next step that you take or the next story that you tell yourself or the next call you make of the people that you surround yourself with.

So, I'll pause there for a moment 'cause I realize I've [00:33:00] shared, shared a lot, but hopefully touches on both sides of the pendulum because. That's, you know, my goal in my work is to bring evidence-based information to the market as you know, and then give you all agency over that information. you can all process it in your own ways.

Take it in in your own ways. But I assure anyone listening to this that my main passion and purpose in life at the moment, and has been for a long time and will continue to be, is about bringing creditable evidence-based information. On what we're discussing today, and then again, giving you agency over that, which I think is one of the most powerful things as a human being, is to then create space for yourself to ingest information that you think can help you.

And that's really the mission I'm on as well.

[00:33:48] Kristina: Yeah, I absolutely love it. So, when I met you, I, I remember thinking, I need to understand imposter because I, I feel like I don't have it. So then that was my first thing, and then you came up with a book and I was like, this is perfect [00:34:00] because so many people in my coaching program have this.

And we are gonna read your book in my book club because at the same time we are gonna read it in. I'm just trying to think where we are now, in August, because we. At the same time in my coaching program, we are, the theme is sharing your light. So that is all about, all of us have so much to share not everyone wants to do that on a global scale or you know, in a big way.

But a lot of us have. Unique experience. All of us have unique experiences in terms of what they can share from someone who's just right behind us who might need some support. And that could be one-on-one. It doesn't have to be a big thing. And that's why I feel like in my, in my coaching program, I see all these amazing talent.

I see these amazing experiences, hard experiences, as well as really good ones. And I just feel like, oh my gosh, you could do something with that and create something that you're really passionate about. So that's why I was like. So when I, when your book came out, I was like, I really wanna under wanna understand it [00:35:00] and I wanna have some expertise 'cause I obviously don't have it, but it, gives me to the next thing I wanted to chat about, which is, um.

I was out walking with two amazing humans, friends of mine, and, uh, they were talking about someone in a, in a positive way saying, gosh, she's so amazing. She's so, you know, they were saying all these amazing things about this person. And as I was listening I was like, gosh, these two women. Are as brilliant as that person is because I, I knew that person as well personally, as well as on the, you know, on Instagram everyone looks, you know, you often just share the good things.

Uh, but I also knew her personally and they were just talking about her, how amazing she was. And then I just had to stop them. I said, do you know why she's so good? And they like, you know, gave all these amazing, um, reasons why. And I said, do you know you guys are as amazing as she's? And they're like, ah.

And you know, they started with all [00:36:00] these kind of. Reasons why not. And then I said, do the reason why she's so good in, from my view, I'm not an expert in this, but I said from my view is that she's out there doing it not perfectly as I know her personally as well.

I'm like, I know she's not perfect because none of us are.

and it was such an interesting one, and I always say when I run workshops, 'cause obviously I don't know everyone who attends my workshop. If they're not in my coaching program, I often say if you feel envy of someone who's doing something that you wanna do. Use that as inspiration because that's what I do is like I, I'm not even close to where I wanna get to.

Like even something like my podcast, I was terrified and often share this. I was terrified starting a podcast because of my second language, because it's not my skill. I've always been interviewed, never been interviewer. But then I thought, I'm gonna learn it. And the first 50 was terrible and never hard.

And I often said to Paul, I'd rather open his 50 stores today than doing this because.[00:37:00]

I just kept showing up and, and I thought, I don't have to be perfect and I'm ne and I'm not perfect now. Absolutely not even close, and that gives me a lot of room to improve, but what I do. I love this. And you know, with when I met you, if I didn't have a podcast, I might have just met you once and, we might not have ever crossed path, but when, when I met you, I was like, oh, she'd be a great one in my podcast.

And then when you came up with the book, I'm like, you're a great one for the, for my book club because it's something we all need. And it's, it's so interesting how we can turn. For me not having imposter, I was like, you said it as inspiration. And you know, I specifically one of them, she's so educated, she, I don't know if she can get more education and I think, you know, we are all guilty of this.

Like, oh, I need to be better at this. And, you know, I I could have taken a million podcast courses and speaking is the same like. I'm not a good speaker and I'm a speaker by default, but I'm like, the more I do it, the better I become. That's my view. So [00:38:00] I'd love for you to put your spin on this one.

[00:38:03] Alison: Yeah, well, I think, no, I think it's exactly right and, and quickly one of the things that whether we're sort of deep in self-doubt or, or imposter syndrome, we get really good at like deflecting things away. So if it is imposter syndrome, we get really good at making excuses for our success or deflecting to like, oh, I just got lucky, or, you know, I only got that because someone took pity on me.

So basically we don't internalize. Internalize our success. We deflected away. But also, yes, when we're having moments of like the, the comparison or the envy, you use the word envy there and I love that. I wanna touch on that for a moment because whenever we are feeling envy's a really powerful word, you know, a a, a label of, a feeling of an emotional reaction.

And I agree and I love what you said, that if we are feeling envious of someone, I, and I use this in my life as well, I'm totally in support of what you said. I use it as a moment to stop. And reflect because when we are envious it, there is always then [00:39:00] something you know, shifting inside us. So it doesn't have to be, you know, awfully negative or something, but it's, it's a check-in for ourselves.

'cause you need to ask yourself. Okay. Why am I envious of them? Is it because they're doing something amazing and I want to inspire to that? Or it's, it's motivated me to do X or y To your point, that's really aspirational. It, it gets you, you know, inspired. And I refer to that in the book as the comparison coin.

So I share this in chapter 10, which is, it's similar. It's about when you come out of imposter syndrome or heavy bouts of doubt rather than. Self-sabotaging comparison where you are talking yourself down, I will never be as good as Julie or Michael, or I'm always less than. You can compare or look at other people or insert whatever language you're comfortable with and go, I really admire that, or I really love what they've done there, or actually them doing that.

It's really inspired me that I should get in the arena and. Try to do X more so we can look at it through that aspirational, inspirational, and aspirational lens. I agree wholeheartedly with [00:40:00] what you said, and I think it's great advice that we can share to each other and keep at the forefront. And again, if we're having an envious moment, and especially in this world of social media and that sort of thing, I say to my clients who are high performing, high achievers around the world, use that as a check-in point because.

Envy can easily tip over into the negative side and the negative emotion, so it's a great point to just check ourselves. And then of course use that check-in to then deploy something that's going to serve. I use the language, serve us, not sabotage us, right? So serving, pushing you forward, aligning with what you want, et cetera.

Sabotaging speaks for itself, working against you, invoking more fear, doubt, or imposter syndrome. So I think that, I think it's, you know, exactly right. And also, understanding that, We are unique. Okay, so you would've heard this a lot, Kristina, especially being such a successful entrepreneur, when someone says, what's your USP or Unique Selling proposition, and I worked in technology for 16 years, so the amount of times, but I've [00:41:00] heard USP, whether it's to a technology, product to a person.

And here's what I say to that, your USP or unique selling proposition as an individual is there's only one of you

[00:41:09] Kristina: Yeah,

[00:41:09] Alison: you

[00:41:10] Kristina: absolutely.

[00:41:11] Alison: Your own strengths. If you can learn to stand as your authentic self, if you can learn to be okay with, you know, such as perfection. But we're testing, we're learning, we're growing as human beings.

We evolve our identity. Just back to identity for a moment, so wanna tie into why I shared it earlier our identity is always evolving. So if you are listening to this and you are 40 years old, you're not the same person you were at 30. At 20. If you are listening to this and you are 75, you are not the same person you were 10 years ago.

And what we forget to do, this is all genders now regardless of how you gender identify. So many of us forget that we evolve and that our identity evolves and that our personality evolves, and that we should always check back in with our values. And are they evolving or are [00:42:00] they, they still set, which is good and they're serving us.

And so we will evolve. So giving ourselves permission to evolve standing as your authentic self. To your point, owning your strengths, knowing what you dunno, which is okay. You can learn it if you want, or you can outsource it if you want. Or you can just go, Hey, I'm probably never gonna be great at that.

That's okay. 'cause that doesn't really impact me. So getting to the point where those are the conversations you are having with yourself, mean that you are very much centered. anchored, I beg your pardon, not centered. Well centered plays a part too in self-worth. That's just something Kristina, I wanna mention, and I know you would've seen this in the book and no doubt, you know, um, talk about this throughout your programs is this notion of self-worth.

So if you think of a pyramid, I think we all know what a pyramid looks like, right? The strongest part of the pyramid is the foundation. They build the foundation first and then they build the stones up and eventually, you know, we get, we get to the top and the stones are smoothed off and we get these beautiful pyramids.

So think of self-worth, like your foundation, right? And then [00:43:00] above self-worth comes things like self, self-esteem, self-confidence, and these other senses of self. But self-worth is your anchor. Self-worth is the only part of the selfs pyramid that you can control. You are the only one who can anchor in self-worth, which is value.

Who you are as a person, what matters to you, what holds you up. So we need to focus on those things and if we can do that and check in with them and grow and evolve with them, we are going to be able to fight off. Imposter syndrome if it shows up or not, experience it at all. And you'll know, Kristina, that, in my book, I reference the people I talk to who do not experience imposter syndrome, also thrilled that now I can add you to, to that list.

And I, I share that because in my work. Obviously speaking to, I've spoken to tens of thousands of individuals globally about imposter syndrome, but I interview and have interviewed more than a thousand individuals who do not [00:44:00] experience imposter syndrome because I look at both sides of the pendulum and I'm fascinated by their stories.

And thank you for what you know, you've shared with me here and shared through your work. Of why they haven't experienced imposter syndrome verse so many of us that do. So just for everyone listening, I want you to know that the work is balanced and I'm in these conversations because I care about, again, real information I can bring to all of you.

I. That then will allow you to absorb that information how you wish to, and you know, Kristina, you leading with I. Yep. Love understanding imposter syndrome. That's something I've never experienced. It's very powerful because that is your true story and there are many successful people like you who have never experienced imposter syndrome.

And understanding your stories are super important because they will help us. Who have experienced it, understand some of the tools and some of the concepts and some of the different pathways that will help us navigate out of it.

that's, that's super important. So I thank you for raising that as well and [00:45:00] standing in your power and saying, yeah, when understand this an Emma understanding it, it's not something I've experienced and that's why I'm, I find it, I'm curious, I'm fascinated 'cause I see a lot of people or coach a lot of people who do, and that's a great space to be in.

[00:45:12] Kristina: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. so obviously we are going to read your book in my book club, so a lot of people who are listening here will be ready. Yes, absolutely. I can't wait. And, uh, it's gonna be fascinating discussions, but, for those people who are not in my book club, I just want you to share a little bit about what kind of work did you do?

To start this process. Obviously I encourage everyone to get your book so they can do that in their own time because it's obviously not something we do overnight. But I'd love for you to share what did you start with and what was kind of your journey.

[00:45:45] Alison: So for me, the biggest thing, and it's the number one thing for anyone listening is imposter syndrome is driven by a story. We tell ourselves a very personal, a very negative story. So for me, I had to unpack that story. I realized that it was attached to things that happened to me [00:46:00] when I was younger, driven by my own mother.

That was just in my case, it happened to involve a parent, and I had to unpack that story and then rewrite a story for myself based on. The evidence of my success, the woman that I was at that time, I, I just turned 30 years old. I was about, well, 30 and a half at the time. And so it starts with understanding and unpacking the negative story.

We tell ourselves why it exists, and then we have to rewrite that story. And I write extensively, yes, in the book, of course, but if you don't engage with my book, I write extensively across. All of the free platforms you can find me on about this, but start with the story you're telling yourself. Start with where it came from.

We must intercept and redirect that story. It's the critical first point.

[00:46:46] Kristina: Yeah, I love that. And to do this work? Did you use therapists or did you do it all yourself? Did you incorporate some journaling? Obviously I'm very big journaling person, so it's always, uh, curious [00:47:00] to see if that had a place as well.

[00:47:02] Alison: It did, it actually did. So I, I've always loved to journal or write things down. When I was younger, a younger girl and into teenagehood, I had diaries like I know many of us did. But I've continually done that practice and ensure that I can get down what is in my head. I. down into paper, which is very powerful.

I also used a lot of voice recordings, so I would record my thoughts in voice notes, and then I would delete them soon after, but I would get them down. So these are techniques that worked. Back to your other question, I did seek medical help and medical treatment in the beginning of my journey, and then I did a lot of.

Self-study learning about imposter syndrome, the how and why it was impacting me. And then I employed a business coach who wasn't helping me with the imposter syndrome. I sort of took ownership of the study on that, which led to the expertise I have now more than. But I hired a business coach to help me deploy new actions [00:48:00] and help me stay accountable.

To the new actions, which as you know, Kristina then changes the behaviors, which changes the habit loops, and so I had to get rid of negative habits and behaviors. Replace him with new ones. So I employed a business coach for, a year and a half. I really enjoyed working with him at the time, so we stayed on.

So having the accountability, yes, I did seek some professional help to begin with self-paced study, which I was very committed to. I'm a very disciplined person, so I knew I could absorb it. And then I hired a business coach to hold me accountable, plus all the other wonderful staff coaches do. And I also had a supportive group of, uh, supportive partner.

And close friends, and this is the final thing I'll share on this is don't suffer in silence syndrome. Find people you feel safe with. Find people you trust. Please talk about your experience. Get it off your chest. Allow yourself to process it and your, the people around you want to help you.

[00:48:58] Kristina: [00:49:00] Yeah. I love this. And you know what I really love about this? Considering we are jumping into a new theme in August, which is about share, people sharing their light is that we all have challenges, you.

know, some, much harder than others for sure. But when we get through that and we are able to, to work like you have with, uh, now becoming you, you suffered from it and now you're an expert in it, and now you're helping other people, which I, which I think is like, that is like the ultimate gift in so many ways. Yes.

Hard and you had to go through all that to get to that, but I think it's in the hard. The hard challenges is when we grow the most and we have most to share. Because I often got asked to speak about my business about success, and that was amazing because for me, the success was hard. Like it was hard.

It was a challenge to get through. I had no idea about anything, so that was to me, but from the outside, it looked like it was only success, which [00:50:00] of course, never a business is just about success. We have to make a lot of mistakes and, and learn from them. And that's, it's the hard part, but also the fun part because if everything was perfect, I don't think anyone would continue it because it's the, it's the, the bumps in the roads and the challenges that coming.

It's almost like that's when, you know, we are rewarding, you know, we are rewarded by dopamine, by doing versus just, you know, just getting a, a quick dopamine hit. And I love that you share this because I think that's what everyone who's gone through a challenging time, whatever that is in business or personally.

or physically, that's where often it becomes your gift.

[00:50:39] Alison: Yeah, no, thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it. And you said something I've, I've heard, you know, through a lot of your work is that. Which I just wanna reiterate quickly is that there is so much growth in the journey and I love that you highlight that and I, it is exactly the same. We so relatable in the terms of coming through imposter syndrome.

And I say to my clients, I'm saying to everybody listening to [00:51:00] this, overcoming imposter syndrome is a journey. People can make significant shifts in a matter of weeks, definitely over a couple of months. And then, you know, you continue to build on that, but the growth is in the journey. So we don't wake up and go.

You know, I've got imposter syndrome and the next day I don't, you know, unfortunately it's not a quick fix, but there is a structured solution to get you out and the growth, to your point, it happens in the journey and then we're 10 weeks in, or 12 weeks in, or a couple of months, you know, three or four months down the track, and we just go, oh my goodness.

Yeah, I've come out of that. So enjoy the journey as well.

[00:51:36] Kristina: Fantastic. I love that. do you have a morning ritual that helped you with the imposter?

[00:51:42] Alison: Yes, I did. So movement was really important and being in nature. So to help me dissipate some of those anxious feelings in negative thoughts. So exercise first thing in the morning, which is what I prefer, and getting outside and traveling to, and whether it was walking or traveling to and [00:52:00] from the gym, and just having some outside time and some movement in the morning.

Ties into my wanting to be a professional athlete back in the day as well, but very important movement. Um, all of you I'm sure understand that getting out in nature, sunlight in your eyes. These things do work and make a significant difference and they certainly helped me.

[00:52:19] Kristina: Yeah. Fantastic. I love that. Love both, both of those things. I'm curious, was there a book that had a big impact on you or, uh, even a book that changed your life?

[00:52:32] Alison: So look, there's, there's been a couple and they're, they're old school. I talk about the change back in the time. Books like How to Win Friends and Influence People. the magic of of Thinking Big, think and Grow Rich and these real pioneers of the self-development movement as well as memoirs always played a big part.

I've always believed in energy, the universe. you are what you believe, these types of things. So lots of inspiration and [00:53:00] those sorts of books from the past and reading the work and stories of real people like who have done the things that I wanted to do and understanding their journey has been look quite frankly, instrumental on my journey.

And I highly recommend it for anyone. Surround yourself with good content and, uh, whether it's old or new, if it makes an impact on you, absorb it.

[00:53:22] Kristina: Yeah, I remember reading the Magic of Thinking Big, uh, which is in my top 10 books I've read so much that it's hard to choose top 10. But that one I remember just thinking So big. And I remember when I was away with a friend and And I was reading that, uh, you know, for, the second or third time, because I think sometimes you need to read a book many times to get get, and you get different things at different stages of your life where you're at.

But, my friend, she was, uh, you know, having a kind of small business and then I said, Hey, let's, let's think about your business as thinking big. And the theme of that trip actually became why not? [00:54:00] It wasn't why, why not me? But it was Why not? Because we were just like, why not? Why, why wouldn't we go big and why wouldn't we think outside the square?

And uh, I love how big books can have such an impact on us hands. Having a, a book club that is a global book club now, because I just think that. Someone like you have done so much work on yourself, but also research wise to, and you put it all in one book that all of us can buy for hardly any money. it's, very little money, a book.

And then we can implement what is relevant for us. So I love asking that question. And the last question I have is, knowing what you know now, what kind of advice would you give to your younger self?

[00:54:44] Alison: So I'd say to my younger self is just keep going. You're doing the best that you can. You know, because I came through a lot and although I had to persevere and going and be independent. I never felt again, felt like I was doing enough or still had a, a [00:55:00] small segment of feeling still worthless, you know, which is also tied to, to what happened to me.

But I would just say, keep going. You know, keep persevering. You're doing the best you can. I would give my younger self the, the praise that she deserved or the pat on the back or the, you know, those times 'cause I spent so much. Time alone suffering in silence and behind the scenes. So I,

[00:55:21] Kristina: Yeah.

[00:55:22] Alison: you know, keep going and this would, you know, be worth it.

And

[00:55:25] Kristina: Yeah.

[00:55:26] Alison: is that. I would say, you know, you rise and fall, essentially just for conversation sake on, on what you say to yourself, I'm the biggest, and it's in the book self-talk, and I don't mean toxic positivity and those sorts of things, but the story we tell ourself, what we say to ourself in particular, when we are alone and when we are in tough places, more importantly than when we're around other people.

We rise and fall on that and yes, it stems from belief system, but that dialogue with yourself. I cannot stress how important that will always be, and doing [00:56:00] that early and encouraging the science of self-talk early is revolutionary, right? E the belief. So they're the, they're the two things I would say and package that up, obviously for the younger self, but they're the two directions I would go on.

[00:56:13] Kristina: Yeah, I absolutely love that. Thank you so much. It's been such an inspiring conversation and I am so glad I met you and also so glad you shared your wisdom in a book that we are all going to not just read, we're gonna discuss it and we are gonna implement whatever is relevant for each person. So thank you so very much.

[00:56:34] Alison: My pleasure. Thank you.

[00:56:36] Kristina: Wow, what a powerful and empowering conversation. I absolutely loved hearing Allison's perspective on conquering the imposter within, and I hope you are walking away feeling just a little braver, bolder and more grounded.

Your worth. If you enjoy this episode, be sure to grab a copy of, Alison's book, [00:57:00] conquer Your Imposter. I will link to it in the show notes. it's full of insight, practical strategies, and real talk that can genuinely change how you see yourself and what you believe you are capable of.

Obviously, we covered lots of that in this conversation. But the book goes so much deeper, and if you do want to go even deeper than that, we are reading this book in August, 2025 in my book Club Guru. We are not just reading it, we'll be discussing it, and we'll be sharing stories and we'll learn from each other and we'll implement what is relevant for each of us.

And if this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone you know who could use this as a reminder of how just brilliant they truly are, especially if they're suffering from imposter. As always, thank you so much for listening. I will be back on Monday with another Monday morning motivation episode.

I'll see you then. [00:58:00]